GWR numbering scheme..

I think it was fairly logical during Collets day ..then Hawksworth messed it up

Why? well the 15xx panniers should have been grouped with the 57xx panniers as should the 94xx (there would have been enough numbers in the 26xx,76xx,86xx series to use for the 94xx and the 15xx could have been 17xx)

the 16xx panniers should have been grouped with the 54xx,64xx and 74xx (small passenger tanks) the 14xx were moved into this series, they should have moved the 58xx as well to, say 24xx with the 16xx being 34xx perhaps.

Of course the oddest looking number were the Counties at 10xx, surely 89xx or even 88xx would have been more logical.

Any thought? Its a slow day and I have my anorak on...)

 

The 48xx tanks were moved to 14xx because I think the 48xx No's were used for the 28xx/38xx converted to oil burners. I also think the counties were originally allocated in the 99xx No.series.

 

You have to remember what older classes were still about... For example 1701 series 1854 class 0-6-0Ts lasted until late 40s, one until 1950, quite a few 2721s lasted into 1950, 2021s in both 2000 and 2100 series into late 50s. 3300 and 3400 Bulldogs survived until 1951, and 2600 Aberdares to 1949. Both 1500 and 1600 series were reuses of old 0-6-0T number ranges.

 

Arthur Maunsell,

I think not. To an Antipodean from NSW, the numbering system, whilst seemingly random, does have some contants.

Ignore the first numeral, it means very little. The second numeral is the important one. This appears to denote usage or something.

The big 4-6-0s use second numeral zero.
Hawkesworth Counties are numbered 10xx.
Castles are number 40xx, 50xx, 70xx.
Kings are numbered 60xx.

Halls are numbered 49xx, 59xx, 69xx, 79xx.

Suburban tank locomotives use second numeral one.
Suburban tanks: 31xx, 41xx, 51xx, 61xx, 81xx.

Branchline tanks used second numeral 5.
Branchline tanks: 45xx, 55xx.

Eight coupled tank engines use second numeral two.
2-8-0 tanks: 42xx, 52xx
2-8-2 tanks: 72xx.

The 2-6-0s used second numeral 3.
43xx: 43xx, 53xx.
73xx: 73xx.

0-6-0 Panniers are seemingly everywhere. They use second numeral 4, 6 & 7.
64xx class: 64xx, 74xx.
94xx class: 34xx, 84xx, 94xx.
57xx class: 37xx, 57xx, 67xx, 77xx, 87xx, 97xx, then onto another second number. 36xx, 46xx, 96xx.
16xx class: 16xx.

The 0-6-2 tanks used second numeral 6: 56xx, 66xx.

The GWR small 2-8-0s used second numeral eight.
28xx class: 28xx, 38xx.

The big 2-8-0s used second numeral seven.
47xx: 47xx.

To me, this makes some sort of sense. The numbers are grouped in a semi logical fashion.

Second numeral zero is used in the 10xx, 4oxx, 5oxx, 60xx and 70xx groups.
Second numeral one is used in the 31xx, 41xx, 51xx, 61xx and 81xx groups.
Second numeral two is used in the 42xx, 52xx groups.
Second numeral three is used in the 43xx, 53xx and 73xx groups.
Second numeral four is used in the 34xx, 54xx, 64xx, 74xx, 84xx and 94xx groups.
Second numeral five is used in the 45xx and 55xx groups.
Second numeral six is used in the 16xx, 36xx, 46xx, 56xx, 66xx and 96xx groups.
Second numeral seven is used in the 37xx, 47xx, 57xx, 67xx, 77xx, 87xx and 97xx groups.
Second numeral eight is used in the 28xx and 38xx groups. it was used in the 48xx group too.
Second numeral nine is used in the 49xx, 59xx, 69xx and 79xx groups.

 

There were several successive numbering schemes I think. I've just been reading up in RCTS books and they reckon the first block scheme was under Dean, and seems to have been:

<1300 older numbers and prototypes/experimental
1301-1400 absorbed standard gauge
1401-1500 passenger tanks (eg 517, Metro)
1501-2000 0-6-0 tanks
2001-2200 absorbed broad gauge (cleared out in 1892 of course)
2201-2300 Passenger Tender
2301-3000 Goods tender
(but 2701-2800 then used for more 0-6-0 tanks)
3001-3200 Singles
3201-3500 Passenger 4 coupled

then under Churchward it was extended to include
2161-2700 2-6-2T
3101-3200 2-6-2T (singles were obviously going!)
2901-3000 2cyl 4-6-0 (out of the freight series)
4000-4100 4cyl 4-6-0
3701-3900 more passenger 4 coupled
4101-4200 yet more passenger 4 coupled
4201-4300 heavy freight tanks
4301-4400 2 cyl 2-6-0

Then there was a big renumbering in 1912, which led to the second digit scheme, which was basically in wheel arrangement, as spinner says, but the Dean system still in use under 4500, with Churchward classes starting at 4000 fitting both schemes! Collett tended to follow this, but with the passing of the years the Dean series tended to become extinct or lost in minor renumberings (like Dukes/Dukedogs - 90xx) and ranges below 4000 started becoming absorbed in the Churchward scheme.

So for most of the 20thC the GWR actually had two contradictory numbering schemes, the Dean scheme for under 4500 and the Churchward scheme for over 4000 but with several allocations fitting both schemes! So it seems that with the 15s and 16s Hawkesworth was reverting to Dean series allocations!

 

yeah I know all that...so I'm right basically that Hawksworth changed what logic there was in Collets system of numbering.

Heres another then...assume nationalisation, Motorways, Diesels and long distance trucks never happened....what number series would be in use today and what would the loco fleet look like.(rememebr, almost all the 1948 locos would be scrapped by now...) go on, spoil your self...use your imagination.... (OTHER RAILWAY FANS, go start your own thread... ) Gas Turbines grudgingly accepted.)

 

Much as I hate to destroy the logic you've used, there are a handful of exceptions to the rules you've created.

The 14XX/48XX 0-4-2 tanks were neither pannier tanks nor 8-wheelers.
The city class were numbered 34XX then 37XX (CofT going from 3440 to 3717)
Collett Goods were numbered 32XX
the 15XX class were 6 wheel pannier tanks (although they were a BR design)
The Earl 3200 class were 4-4-0's and numbered 32XX then 90XX (9017 at the bluebell)
The dean Goods were the 2301 class and were 6 wheel tender engines

nice start, but I'm afraid there are some key GWR engines that have been left out of your arrangement

 

ive made a start on the latest fleet...anyione daft enough to join in...?

GWR loco fleet 2010

Express passenger

2000 class 4-6-2 4 cyl nos 2000-2030 "Constellation or Great Bear Class"
9000 Class 4-6-0 4 cyl nos 9000-9099 8000-8099 "Star Class"
1000 Class 4-6-0 2 Cyl nos 1050-1079 "Modified County class"

Mixed traffic

1900 Class 4-6-0 6' wheels 1900-1999,2900-2999,3900-3999
9900 Class 4-6-0 5'8" wheels 9900-9979
2300 Class 2-6-0 2300-2399,3300-3399

Heavy freight

1800 Class 2-10-0 1800-1899
8800 Class 2-8-0 8800-8899,9800-9899
6200 Class 2-8-2t 62oo-6254
8200 Class 2-8-0t 8200-8299,9200-9299

 

They were no more a BR design than other GW classes produced after nationalisation. e.g. Castles; 41xx and 94xx.

Meic