"Haynes Manual": Steam loco overhaul?

You have all no doubt seen the Haynes Manuals for cars and motorcycles. At Christmas my Father received the Haynes Manual put together for the BBMF Lancaster Bomber during its recent comprehensive overhaul. (My Dad worked on Lancasters during the war, and looking at the detailed drawings in the manual could recall exactly how he had fitted some of the parts shown, and how he had to fabricate special tools at RAF Scampton to make the job easier)

I wonder therefore if anyone has thought of working with the Haynes people to put together a Haynes Manual for a current or proposed steam locomotive overhaul? It would certainly provide an interesting and permanent detailed record of such an overhaul, and I assume sell to the enthusiast market as something of interest, and could no doubt be used as a fund raising vehicle. I would buy one!

If you have not seen this, here is a link:

http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/nwh_gfx_en/ART57582.html

46118

 

Unfortunately according to the reviews it is not what it appears to be - a shame otherwise I would buy a copy for my dad for his 90th next month to recall his time at Biggin Hill in 1940.

 

Can't say any more, but I can say "Watch this space..."

Out of curiosity, what project, past/present or future, do forum members believe would make the best subject for such a book?

Regards

Andrew C

 

Duke of Gloucester or Galatea for a start.
Might as well start with a problem.

 

Here's the problem:

Haynes Workshop Manuals

For those who have not used a Haynes Manual, these are the books aimed at car-owners who want to fix their own cars and after which, keep qualified mechanics in paid employment putting things right.
They are chock full of photos, diagrams and step-by-step instructions which are obvious if you are a fully qualified motor mechanic, but are frighteningly sparse on detail for the average Joe in the street who wants to change a set of spark plugs on his pride and joy.
Haynes: Rotate anticlockwise.
Translation: Clamp with mole grips (adjustable wrench) then beat repeatedly with hammer anticlockwise. You do know which way is anticlockwise, don't you?
Haynes: Should remove easily.
Translation: Will be corroded into place ... Clamp with adjustable wrench then beat repeatedly with a hammer.
Haynes: This is a snug fit.
Translation: You will skin your knuckles! ... Clamp with adjustable wrench then beat repeatedly with hammer.
Haynes: This is a tight fit.
Translation: Not a hope in hell matey! ... Clamp with adjustable wrench then beat repeatedly with hammer.
Haynes: As described in Chapter 7...
Translation: That'll teach you not to read through before you start. Now you are looking at scary photos of the inside of a gearbox.
Haynes: Pry...
Translation: Hammer a screwdriver into.….
Haynes: Undo...
Translation: Go buy a tin of WD40 (catering size).
Haynes: Ease .
Translation: Apply superhuman strength to ...
Haynes: Retain tiny spring...
Translation: "Jeez what was that, it nearly had my eye out"!
Haynes: Press and rotate to remove bulb...
Translation: OK - that's the glass bit off, now fetch some good pliers to dig out the bayonet part and remaining glass shards.
Haynes: Lightly...
Translation: Start off lightly and build up till the veins on your forehead are throbbing then re-check the manual because what you are doing now cannot be considered "lightly".
Haynes: Weekly checks...
Translation: If it isn't broken don't fix it!
Haynes: Routine maintenance...
Translation: If it isn't broken... it's about to be!
Haynes: One spanner rating (simple).
Translation: Your Mum could do this... so how did you manage to botch it up?
Haynes: Two spanner rating.
Translation: Now you may think that you can do this because two is a low, tiny, ikkle number... but you also thought that the wiring diagram was a map of the Tokyo underground (in fact that would have been more use to you).
Haynes: Three spanner rating (intermediate).
Translation: Make sure you won't need your car for a couple of days and that your AA cover includes Home Start.
Haynes: Four spanner rating.
Translation: You are seriously considering this aren't you, you pleb!
Haynes: Five spanner rating (expert).
Translation: OK - but don't expect anyone to ride in it afterwards!!!
Translation #2: Don't ever carry your loved ones in it again and don't mention it to your insurance company.
Haynes: If not, you can fabricate your own special tool like this…….
Translation: Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!
Haynes: Compress...
Translation: Squeeze with all your might, jump up and down on, swear at, throw at the garage wall, then search for it in the dark corner of the garage whilst muttering "Sh**, F**k**g, Ba***rd" repeatedly under your breath.
Haynes: Inspect.…..
Translation: Squint at it really hard and pretend you know what you are looking at, then declare in a loud knowing voice to your wife "Yep, as I thought, it's going to need a new one"!
Haynes: Carefully...
Translation: You are about to cut yourself!
Haynes: Retaining nut...
Translation: Yes, that's it, that big spherical blob of rust.
Haynes: Get an assistant...
Translation: Prepare to humiliate yourself in front of someone you know.
Haynes: Turning the engine will be easier with the spark plugs removed.
Translation: However, starting the engine afterwards will be much harder. Once that sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach has subsided, you can start to feel deeply ashamed as you gingerly refit the spark plugs.
Haynes: Refitting is the reverse sequence to removal.
Translation: Swear and cuss in different places.
Haynes: Prise away plastic locating pegs...
Translation: Snap off...
Haynes: Using a suitable drift or pin-punch...
Translation: The biggest nail in your toolbox isn't a suitable drift!
Haynes: Everyday toolkit
Translation: Ensure you have an AA, RAC or Greenflag Card and your Mobile Phone

 

And, of course, "this job should be left to your Bulleid main dealer"...

 

Camden Miniature Steam Services do a re-print of the Ministry of Supply book which was supplied to HM Forces during WWII with the WD Austerity 2-10-0s. I have a copy, it's an excellent publication, and very reasonably priced too (£12-ish if I remember correctly!)

Richard.

 

Suitable subject?

Maybe the overhaul of 70000 at Crewe if it is not yet too far advanced.

46118

 

Great idea.

Using a Haynes manual all restorations would be complete in no time at all.

Just follow the ubiquitous instruction "Reassembly is simple reversal of the above dismantling procedure"

 

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Really you are a cynical bunch!

As far as I recall the only reasonably complete record of a specific steam loco overhaul was an expensive "coffee table" book of photographs taken at Southall when 60103 was overhauled. But that was exactly that, a "coffee-table" book, not an engineering record.

My feeling was simply that we dont have a permanent record of such an overhaul. I appreciate some of the shortcomings of the standard Haynes Manual as detailed above by Sheff and LMS2968, and maybe it will not serve as a detailed record of all those skills necessary for such an overhaul, more an engineering overview.

What was the last book written about steam loco overhauls? I suggest Bill Harveys "Steam Locomotive Restoration And Preservation" in 1980!

However, think on this, where are we recording and preserving all these skills and techniques used in a steam loco overhaul? It is very dangerous to rely on all this information being passed down by word of mouth. We are relying very much on the older generation of engineers scattered about in our heritage railway workshops. As they retire or pass on to the big works in the sky, are we not in danger of ending up with insufficient practitioners of these skills?

I think we are....and not just in our sphere.

46118

 

Good job too. It would have been the poorest example one could imagine.

 

Ok - seriously, there may be some merit in this. I can see the benefit in areas like, for instance, white-metalling, valve-setting, horn alignment etc. etc. But I'm not sure it would apply so well in other areas e.g. boiler assesment where practical training would be a must I should think.

Taking all this to its logical conclusion, maybe there should be some kind of recognised training scheme, eg HNC / NVQ or whatever they're called these days, of which this "manual" would for part of the cousre literature? Of course someone would have to pay for all this.

My worry is that any Tom, Dick or Harry could buy the Haynes and think they are competant to repair a loco.

 

Sheff: Good points. It would be useful to hear from someone like Ian Riley about how these skills are passed down. He has apprentices I think. Is it "written down", or is it essentially word of mouth? Where do you go to check for the correct materials for a job, the steam-days spec for tolerances and the like?
I wonder if loco workshops operate as indvidual units, or exchange information as necessary.

It is not really about a "Haynes Manual" as such, but about ensuring that we dont lose the skills to do the job, and the technical information and data needed to carry out the work.

Edit: I wonder how the "A1" people approached this issue? They appeared to be well-ordered with their construction project, particularly with mainline certification as the end goal. Maybe Mark Allatt will read this and enlighten us. A modern locomotive, but many traditional skills and methods utilised.

46118

 

I have in front of me a booklet from " The Locomotive Manufactures Association of Great Britain". It consists of fifteen sheets (only got thirteen) and is titled Limits and Fits for use in Locomotive Works and Standard Sections of Materials. Unfortunately it is not dated. It gives details of limits and fits of almost every toleranced component on a steam locomotive. It is very informative.

 

My worry is that any Tom, Dick or Harry could buy the Haynes and think they are competant to repair a loco.[/quote]

I am sorry to have to say it but this is sadly the case in many instances,some groups or individuals bought loco,s for the right reason and then found that they were not as equiped as they thought they were to restore a loco and expected others to do the work for them.Hence the amount of loco's that have not steamed for many a year and the people who own them do not want to let them go.

The Melter

 

Well I'd buy it for starters! Even if only for interest's sake. And LMS 2968's post near to the start of this thread was pure gold, love it

 

Could it be an extract from this ....... http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B001CAFKHA/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used

Copies available it would appear, at a price!