If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

"Haynes Manual": Steam loco overhaul?

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 46118, Feb 11, 2009.

  1. Dan Hamblin

    Dan Hamblin Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,544
    Likes Received:
    181
    Occupation:
    Rolling Stock Engineer
    Location:
    Kent
    The Lancaster and Spitfire Haynes Manuals are a mixture of prototype history and general details of how they are maintained and overhauled by the BBMF. There is no way you could pick one up and expect to become a warbird operator after reading it :smt002

    Regards,

    Dan
     
  2. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    11,930
    Likes Received:
    10,088
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Wow! I've never thought of my copy as being valuable, even though it is signed by John Alcock (President of the LMA at the time). It is very useful for info on limits and fits and we use this as our standard at Middleton. There are also similar and more comprehensive BR documents giving machining requirements for components, everyhing from carriage warming cocks through to progressive sizes of valve spindles and bushes with lots in between. Another useful BR document is wear limits and scrapping sizes. As for materials specs, the LMA handbook covers these, albeit very much out of date in terms of modern British Standards. The ORR publish information on boiler materials and specs and the HRA are starting to put together guidance on boilers and their maintenance and repair in conjunction with the ORR. The written info is largely there. It's the skills and experience that needs to be passed on.
     
  3. Eightpot

    Eightpot Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2006
    Messages:
    8,077
    Likes Received:
    2,264
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Engineer Emeritus
    Location:
    Aylesbury
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    A book that gives a good coverage of the subject is:- 'A Manual of Steam Locomotive Restoration and Preservation' by the late D. W. (Bill) Harvey, ISBN 0-7153-7770-1 originally published by David & Charles of Newton Abbott in 1980 with a 2nd impression also in 1980 and a 3rd in 1981. Copies possibly obtainable from s/h sources.

    Perhaps a reprint is overdue.
     
  4. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    11,930
    Likes Received:
    10,088
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    IMHO, it only skirts the surface of most things and isn't the 'bible' it should be, relying more on the reputation of the author rather than the quality of its content.
     
  5. 46118

    46118 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    4,043
    Likes Received:
    212
    The Bill Harvey book is indeed a modest volume of less than a hundred pages, and as such as Steve implies, cannot cover the subject in detail.

    Hence the need for someone to start gathering all this technical information into one place.

    What you cannot write down however is the hands-on skill of many of the jobs needed to repair and overhaul a steam locomotive. That has to be taught face-to-face, person-to -person.

    46118
     
  6. weltrol

    weltrol Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,784
    Likes Received:
    658

    That is provided you have all the bits.....
     
  7. quarterjack

    quarterjack New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Messages:
    163
    Likes Received:
    12
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    In the wrong job.
    Location:
    Stokes Bay Branch
    Reading this at work I don't have access to my Haynes manuals but I think there is one specifically for restoring a Land Rover Defender. The ex-Army Land Rover workshop manual is far better than the Haynes equivalent. The things about Haynes that have really bugged me is a) the page/paragraph numbering and b) you have to look at two different sections to find out what oil to use and how much to pour in. There really is very little logic to Haynes' layout and I'm amazed that no serious competitor exists.

    Anyway LMS2968 you must be a Land Rover owner from the way you made me laugh out loud! My suggested choice of loco? Obvious really due to the number of them in use/under restoration: 5700/8751 Pannier Tank. Thinking of 9629, perhaps with a section on how to make a Dean Goods boiler fit.
     
  8. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,987
    Likes Received:
    5,084
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Lecturer retired: Archivist of Stanier Mogul Fund
    Location:
    Wigan
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Actually, although having a very high regard for the Landie, I've never owned one. Actually my car - my only car - is a 1961 Ford Prefect!

    Nor can I claim to be the author of that list; I can't remember who sent it to me but it was far too good to delete!
     
  9. mick wilson

    mick wilson Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2005
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    1
    And from where did they get much of that information?
     
  10. houghtonga

    houghtonga Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2007
    Messages:
    385
    Likes Received:
    109
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Chartered Engineer
    Location:
    Derby
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    It already exisits...

    "A manuel of Steam Locomotive Restoration and Preservation" by DW Harvey, David & Charles 1980.

    Not published in Haynes, but in the same style - even a step by step description of an overhaul.

    http://www.transportstore.com/index.cfm ... %20Details
     
  11. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    11,930
    Likes Received:
    10,088
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    See Eightpots post above and my response. It falls well short of its title IMHO.
     
  12. martin butler

    martin butler Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2008
    Messages:
    3,440
    Likes Received:
    388
    A haynes overhaul manual for a steam engine, ?????
    i wonder how many spanners the removal of the middle engine off an un rebuilt spam can would get, or would they have a new symbol for it, a set of cutting torches

    i can just see someone surrounded by a pile of bits , scratching their heads, book in hand, , "now where did that bit go?"
    or, an ex works engine leaves shed on its first trial run, and the mechanic is standing their with a washer and nut in his hand, as the connecting rod works its way loose
     
  13. 34007

    34007 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2007
    Messages:
    3,166
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Middle Engine? Only one about today as far as I know that know's the secret? :-k Maybe he might make a Haynes manual for the Bulleids?
     
  14. quarterjack

    quarterjack New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Messages:
    163
    Likes Received:
    12
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    In the wrong job.
    Location:
    Stokes Bay Branch
    Well if it does have an 'engine' in the middle, it must be a Land Rover one, judging from the amount of oil on my driveway. Luckily for me though, the oil doesn't get on my wheels when pulling away.
     
  15. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,987
    Likes Received:
    5,084
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Lecturer retired: Archivist of Stanier Mogul Fund
    Location:
    Wigan
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    The bits left over at the end of the job are known as the wee bits.

    As they go flying though the air over your shoulder, they make a noise like "Wheeee..."

    Might be tricky with a Bulleid inside con rod...
     
  16. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Messages:
    7,570
    Likes Received:
    2,346
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Engineer & Heritage Volunteer
    Location:
    N Warks
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I have now purchased a full copy of The Locomotive Manufactures Association Handbook off Ebay, from Canada no less. Previously owned by what appears to be two or three French Canadians working for the CPR. Loads of interesting data. Anyone wanting details of tolerances for any particular component feel free to PM me.
     
  17. 73096

    73096 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Messages:
    504
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Salisbury
    Theres not just one person who knows, theres quite a few around. I'm sure theres a good few at the mhr and the guys at herston who have done manston for starters....
     
  18. 46118

    46118 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    4,043
    Likes Received:
    212
    I was being somewhat "tongue in cheek" when I started this topic.

    However...it would be rather nice if someone did actually make/keep a detailed photographic record of the start to finish overhaul of a large locomotive, if for no other reason than future posterity.

    I would buy a copy just out of interest to marvel at the multitude of engineering skills that go into such an overhaul.

    46118
     
  19. richards

    richards Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2008
    Messages:
    4,634
    Likes Received:
    1,921
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    London
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    It's not a big loco, but the photo gallery for the ex-KESR Sentinel "Gervase"
    http://jedwards.fotopic.net/c1574870.html
    have given a good idea of how much work is involved.

    I wonder if a similar photo gallery for a big loco overhaul would help with fund-raising and volunteers?

    Richard
     
  20. 34007

    34007 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2007
    Messages:
    3,166
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hampshire

    Trust me there is one person only who knows how to set up the middle engine properly on a Bulleid.... And this guy gets called on very frequently to get the beats right!!
     

Share This Page