Heritage Line Loco Power Requirements

I was told the K&ESR allow pannier 1638 to go with a maximum of 5 on Thursday

 

On hols so not easy on a phone but, to oblige, on the NYMR it is down to drawbar pull and adhesion as much as anything. For seven coaches the class. 4s are ideal and will cope with eight. The cl4s and 5s have much the same TE so there is little difference. On heavy trains, such as the diner, it is really into cl6 territory. However, a cl4 tank is actually a better bet on an eight coach diner as it doesn't have a tender to drag around.
Worth noting that the load limit in BR days for a cl5 was five coaches.

 

This makes it even more regrettable that at least one of the 4-8-0t designs (A Raven X class, or LSW Urie G16) didn't survive. It sounds as though either would have been jolly useful on the NYM. Ho-hum!

 

Not good for diners, though.

 

If they are as bad as the 0-6-2 tanks then they wouldn't be.

PH

 

Jiggle the soup some what,!

Sent from my PRA-LX1 using Tapatalk

 

I don't know much about the Western, but presumably the 2-8-0t are sort of a tank version of the heavy freight 2-8-0, which was an excellent design for the start? Whereas the 0-6-2T were just a Swindon go at replacing South Wales Valleys pre-grouping locos, which were mostly of this wheel arrangement. I agree the GWR 0-6-2T are slightly nasty and far too ubiquitous. Even my 3mm scale one runs badly! Although perhaps I can't entirely blame Swindon for that...

 

The water tanks on an GW 2-8-0 T are actually quite small, and will always be water critical on any longer railways, big boiler, small tank ,
Why do some railways prefer Larger engines, well 4 on a tender engine, Driver fireman, and 2 trainees and you are not getting in each others way, try 4 on a terrier
Something like an 2mt, may well be suitable motive power for some lines, but on a heavy train they will be working at their maximum and wear and tare will be greater, where as a larger engine, possibly can be worked at less effort, and maintenance may not be so hard, where as a smaller engine will be needing attention sooner , Railways run heavier trains than what may have been the case, in some cases, there is a very good reason for it, pre booked coach parties etc, where a couple of coaches may only be used for one trip and empty the rest of the day, but it may be unpractical to shunt coaches to release those two coaches, and most people expect buffet facilities , even if not all of them use it, some may say, why not run with 3 coaches,if 2 may be empty? but then what if you need to take 2 of those out for a coach party, and you have more passengers turn up than you can fit into the one un reserved coach?

 

1501 is not always liked on thr diner. Notch up too much and you get oscilations

 

1800 gallons at 50gpm, the rate BR used to use for scheduling waterstops gives you 29 miles with 20% margin...............

 

with or without steam heat?

 

No idea I'm afraid

 

Ah! "Big chufferitis" rears its expensive little head.

PH

 

No its not big chufferitis Paul, an 2mt with 4 commonweath bogies is practically at its limit, a 4mt will have a bit more in reserve, a tender engine has the edge over a tank engine in the extra coal and water you can carry, so you do have more flexibility on water stops, if you are delayed and you have a connection to keep, it always used to be on the MHR that you always took water at Ropley, except for the last trip if you were terminating at Alton,because you only had a bout 5 mins, station time,
Then you have the maintaince question a small engine worked to its limit is heavier on coal and water, used more oil , needs heavier maintenance because things are wearing out quicker, a larger engine not pushed so hard will be more economic than a smaller one thrashed to with in its top limit so needing less maintenance, then you have the flexibility over coach lengths, if your train engine is already working to its limit, you cant add, you can only take away, by that i mean, you can reduce your coaching stock down to what your traffic levels indicate, but then any additional passengers, if you have booked parties etc, could mean over crowding, of having to shunt extra coaches, which will effect the timetable .

 

Sorry Martin but IMHO these are just excuses. Not everywhere has 1 in 60 gradients or even has platforms which can accommodate more than five vehicles. Carrying more coal and water than you really need simply costs money in order to lug it around. A large locomotive also costs extra to move itself around compared with a moderately sized one,because of the additional tare.

Very few lines are (thankfully) much more than ten miles long and even an A1x with its small tanks will run ten miles between water stops trip after trip, day after day. In the end we are talking not of running the Southern Belle or the Norfolk Coast Express but 25m.p.h. tourist lines over comparatively limited distances.

If you want to run big chuffers then okay. It is though, because you want to rather than you have to. This will cost you money.

Paul H

 

Paul you are welcome to your opinion, but it is simply that your opinion. Myself and many others dont agree and willl never agree so stop trying to force your opinion on us.

 

Again, it depends on the line. The maximum gradient on the SVR is 1 in 100, but it does pull big trains, which in the season are most often full. The loadings do occasionally call for ten bogies, and that means a Class 4 minimum, which are limited to that number. Class 5s and above are not so restricted, but the platforms at Kidderminster form your natural limit to ten anyway. But a Class 5 does give you some flexibility for time recovery.

It's a matter of horses, or engines, for courses.

 

Paul, i can only qoute on lines that i know, that i have experience on working an engine over, we can descuss the rights and wrongs of why railways have longer rakes than what may be necessary, the why run 5, when 3 will do question, and every railway has its own reasons, some down to " we dont have the time" to we have always run that size rake, same with buffet cars, its about extracting the maximum income .
As regards " Big Chifferitus" why is it many railways that started with a small tank engine, find that they operationally out grow them, once larger engines become availible? is it because its what the public want, to be blunt if you like the KESR want to have an small engine vintage coach image, you either make it policy to overhaul and aquire grounded bodies, like the IOW has, and run 100 per cent vintage ,and sell on the MK1's and become known as a totally authentic light railway , or you adopt a mixed image, but dont say your a light railway image line if your not.