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Heritage Line Loco Power Requirements

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by johnofwessex, Jul 21, 2017.

  1. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    How complex does it have to be Paul?

    There’s a photograph of a Brighton Atlantic at Horsted Keynes. There’s a few more than one, actually.

    That makes the building and use of one in that line authentic, historical and exactly where it should be.

    No such photographs of Ivatts on the Isle of Wight. Zero. A “plan to send” that never happened.

    We might indulge in “big chufferitis” but you are a hypocrite Paul. Hypocrisy trumps big chufferitis that I think.
     
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  2. Copper-capped

    Copper-capped Active Member

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    And, let's call it for what it is. "Big chufferitis" is plain and simple, a made up smoke screen used to disguise one persons WIBN*.

    *also a made up load of old....
     
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  3. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    I had you on "ignore" for very good reason which you justify again so back you go. Had the machine concerned been an original survivor, there would have been a reason for its conservation. The Ivatts are originals and exactly the right size for their purpose.

    PH
     
  4. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

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    That'll be the 'workforce' who are largely volunteer and do it because they enjoy doing it then? Clearly, telling them they can't indulge a bit of variety and 'star power' is going to do wonders for morale and recruitment.

    Steven
     
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  5. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    And the same to you Paul. You cannot see the hypocrisy in your statements.

    God I wish I’d never spoken up today. I had completely forgot about Mr Hitch. If ever there was a reason to not go to the IOSWR, it’s not the Ivatts: it’s Mr Hitch.

    Come back Ivatts - all is forgiven!
     
  6. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

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    I look forward to the Brighton Atlantic taking to the Bluebell rails. It has given the Bluebell Railway and many other railway enthusiasts a "second chance" and it will be ideal for its home railway because people want it and are prepared to pay for it.
     
  7. ross

    ross Member

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    This all raises a few interesting questions about how much it takes for a thing to be unacceptable. We accept Tornado as a “real” locomotive, she runs on the parts of the national network where A1's never ventured, and that apparently is fine. She visits preserved lines in Somerset, Devon,Wales, and we turn out indroves and say the sight is magnificent.

    Replica loco, wrong region, this is o.k.

    Replica loco, correct region-not o.k?

    Genuine loco, wrong region, still o.k?

    Genuine loco, almost correct region-o.k? Not o.k?

    What about the Festiniog Railway deviation? We don't mind that, or the Groudle Glen's new build “Brown Bear”, when the real Polar Bear exists-acceptable. Or the L&B where everyone's perception changed with the building of Lyn.

    If I decided to spend my pools win on a replica of the Rye and Camber's Victoria and coach, might they be deemed acceptable? If I could persuade the council to lease me part of the route maybe? A large part of the original route is mined and quarried out of existence. Is a deviation acceptable? Or a completely new route near to, and in the style of, the original?

    The Glos-Warks has brand new station buildings replacing the originals which were lost-and rightly receives praise for it. The Severn Valley terminus at Kidderminster is absolutely not what was once there-but its glorious.

    How far are we prepared to accept replicas, replacements, deviations, “wrong” loco's and rolling stock, before we start using words like pastiche, playing trains etc? Not criticising or attacking anyone-I'm genuinely interested in what people think about this.
     
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  8. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    I think you have put into words far better than I the thing I was pondering. Thank you.
     
  9. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

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    The secret is not to think too much. Just rejoice, enjoy it and thank goodness for Barry scrapyard and for those people who had the foresight to turn a big boys' train set into part of Britain's heritage. I for one still cannot believe what has been achieved in the last 40 years.
     
  10. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    Wouldn't all this discussion fit better on the 100% authenticity thread?
     
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  11. threelinkdave

    threelinkdave Well-Known Member Friend

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    Iam not sure what point you were making re the Ivats as some were built at Brighton before the standards were designed
     
  12. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Part of the furniture

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    Having thought about not thinking about it for a while, I've come to the conclusion that it's something very British, similar in the way we're known as an animal loving country yet we're not full of vegans. We know what we approve of and what we don't, and it rarely occurs to us to think about the inconsistencies, as that way madness lies.

    On another note, say on NGC someone of liberal leanings blocked someone for being called a hypocrite, they might themselves be branded a "snowflake"......
    After all, pointing out hypocrisy is not particularly insulting if true, merely an opinion and an observation.
     
  13. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    Several Stanier 8F's, plus LMS (Fairburn) & BR (Riddles) class 4 2-6-4t's (& design input on other Class 4's & 9F's) , but no Ivatt 2's AFAIK ... they were by Crewe & Derby for tank locos, Darlo & Swindon for the tender jobs.
     
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  14. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    The formula seems to be that no deviation from the exact original is acceptable, unless it is done at 'my' railway, in which case everyone else is a fool for not doing likewise :)
     
  15. Hicks19862

    Hicks19862 Member

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    This. Every time someone starts a discussion on livery, authenticity or big chufferitis, I would like to point them to this post.
     
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  16. Copper-capped

    Copper-capped Active Member

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    All that matters is that enough people like something and have the moxie to turn a dream into a reality. Everyone else can go to hell - whether they like it or not is of no consequence. Of course, the naysayers can always put their money or skills where their mouth is, and build/restore/maintain what in their opinion is best. Surely that is a better approach than throwing a load of excrement at other people's interests?
     
  17. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    Crewe for the Ivatt 2 tender locos, as well.
     
  18. Bill Drewett

    Bill Drewett Member

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    Well...tough! The survival of your railway in no way justifies breaking my rules of authenticity. If your volunteers lose interest and drift away, I'm afraid that's just a price you'll have to pay. :Happy:
     
  19. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    An eerily familiar mindset .... what does it remind me of? :rolleyes:
     
  20. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    This boils down to WIBN.... if the entire heritage movement/ industry/ whatever pooled their rolling stock and motive power and then divvy'd it back up with Lines getting priority on historically pertinent items. TOC'S having first dibs on the Big Fast engines, steep lines having first dibs on the strong engines, short lines having first dibs on the Tank engines and so on and so forth... never going to happen
     
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