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Heritage Line Loco Power Requirements

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by johnofwessex, Jul 21, 2017.

  1. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I suspect you'd end up with a helluva lot of std 3MT tanks and std 5MT locos but that would be both very boring, and we don't have a helluva lot of std 3MT tanks and std 5MT locos. On the bright side you could paint them all BR black...

    Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
     
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  2. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Oddly enough I once would go along with these thoughts but now have some doubts since
    A. meeting someone from a line I won't embarrass by identifying complaining, without the slightest prompting by me, how uneconomical 9Fs were.
    B. Reports on these pages how G.W.R. 2-8-0s could give passengers a good shaking.

    It would be interesting tohear more.
    There are quite a few which evidently are doing jobs where they have been decried as "too small, too small" by various correspondents here. What, hopefully it proves is that some managements may be less prone to big chufferitis than their railways' supporters.

    PH
     
  3. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Well-Known Member

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    Interesting to compare that list of what is (apparently) doing all the hard work for the preservation movement with column inches on this forum...!
     
  4. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    In some cases it's far from being "just for fun" as a larger loco is all that's available.
     
  5. Platform 3

    Platform 3 Member

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    But I'm not sure anyone has been arguing 'too small'. As has been said a number of times, the right engine will depend on huge numbers of factors. What is right for one railway at one time is completely wrong somewhere else. Management must make the right decision. As it happens there was one case it the list I gave that I thought was 'seriously over-engined'. There was also one railways - the NYMR - which in my view actually needed longer trains at times and which could even put current locomotives under strain.
     
  6. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Oh they have!

    PH
     
  7. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Well-Known Member

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    As, ahem, I said in my very next sentence...
     
  8. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    To expand on what I posted, some railways don't even have anything smaller remotely near ready for traffic.
     
  9. threelinkdave

    threelinkdave Well-Known Member

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    Patrick - I believe its all in the wheel size. Consulting my reprint 55 ABC 2800 class have 4ft 71/2 inch wheels with a TE of 35,380 lb. The 4900 has 6ft wheels and a TE of 27,275lb
     
  10. D1039

    D1039 Guest

    Thanks Dave. I get that. The point I was hamfistedly making was if you have the same grate size, cylinders and boiler, is the running cost (e.g. coal, water) on a preserved line that much different when considering Paul's point (simplified) of Class 5=good and 8=overpowered/often unnecessary?

    Patrick
     
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  11. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    It has been discussed at length on here.
    The problem, such as it is, is not uncommon with 2-cylinder locos. It can be managed with driving techniques and coupling adjustment.
    The Torbay and Dartmouth line seem to cope remarkably well with theirs.
     
  12. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Perhaps the problem is aggravated by small wheels driven by long stroke cylinders?

    PH
     
  13. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Possibly. As said; those who use them regularly seem to manage the issue well.
     
  14. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Well-Known Member

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    It's not that simple though; first you need a suitable water supply (a big enough pipe) which may be nowhere near some stations, then these days you probably need a reverse osmosis plant which is expensive, as well as a water tower which is increasingly hard to come by, then you need sufficient time in the timetable for watering during the run-round, and if yours is a single track line with unevenly spaced passing loops you may need to disproportionately increase the waiting time for the other train at the other end to compensate, or pass at different places meaning an uneven service pattern and perhaps an extra rostered signalman. Sure, it sounds like a good idea to have the option to water at both ends, but it isn't going to be the solution everywhere, and it certainly isn't the answer to the marginal difference in running cost of small vs large engines especially if you already have the large ones available. An equally valid solution would be to do whatever it takes (marketing, special events etc.) to fill a longer train to cover the slightly increased costs.
     
  15. Andy B

    Andy B Member

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    My few pennies worth.... as a driver at the gwsr, we currently run 7 coach sets, expected to increase to 8 next year. Partly due to the large number of coach parties now being carried (we are nearly at 2016's number by august) we could run shorter rakes but splitting and shunting sets is one of the most dangerous aspects on the railway and as we have no full time staff who do it day in day out, it's safer not to do it. As for the 28 and 42, the 28 is the nicer loco for 25mph and very easy to work, but is not so comfortable on the footplate (back end kicks a bit) the 42 as previously mentioned has a nasty habit of shuttling the first coach, funnily enough though, you don't feel anything on the footplate, where it's a really lovely ride, not what you'd expect. The hall and manor are very good, the manor being better because the halls 6' drivers always want to make it take off. As for p&o, it's always going to be a marmite engine, yes i know it's big and expensive, personably I love it, just being allowed to drive it gives me pleasure. And finally, yes, we could use ivatt 2mt's , anyone got one spare? (46521 was a dream) oh and we use the Welsh steam coal, slow burning but perfect fir us as we can set a fire and have a pretty easy trip. Believe we work on around 32 miles/per ton
     
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  16. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    If there is no actual piped water supply at the terminal then I can see merit in this point , otherwise it is just "excuses excuses" for a big chuffer fixation. Thankfully such a fixation, to judge from the table posted earlier, is not shared by railway managements.

    PH
     
  17. Copper-capped

    Copper-capped Part of the furniture

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    I wonder how many extra coach loads, (over a period of time), of punters, ie. both normals and non-normals, are drawn in by the pull factor of having a stonking great impressive engine doing the rounds on a railway?
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
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  18. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    A really good posting! Most informative.

    PH
     
  19. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Not just those two .... (lights blue touchpaper) Surely there are enuf 9Fs to produce an 8MT 2-8-4t or two, with curved tank sides á la 4MT. A 3cyl compound version would keep things interesting for engineering types.

    With no historic baggage in tow, livery wouldn't be an issue. Perhaps MGWR blue or Donegal geranium red would appeal to all those JPJnrs, plus being nice and neutral from a UK perspective. Naturally, you'd need to register the shape, to pre-empt Thomas copyright issues (see? I've thought of the important stuff!)

    Now, about chopping a few rakes of BR MKIIs into balcony ended stock, to get rid of those nasty modern curvy corners.... L&MVLR primrose yellow should look nice. (I'd best get my coat)
     
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  20. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Relatively few. I have been told be someone who "would know" that apart from Flying Scotsman or Tornado, big locomotives do not resonate with the general public enough to justify the cost of bringing them in.

    PH
     

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