Isle of Wight Tube Trains.

Afternoon All,

I recently spent a week on the Isle of Wight and, whilst there, managed to get a few pictures of the ex London Transport 1938 tube stock running between Ryde and Shanklin.

The first selection is now on my Fotopic site and anyone interested to have a look is invited to click here :

http://ronfisher.fotopic.net/c1099919.html

As is usual, I have put them in the 'Stop Press!' collection which is where all new pictures go for the first two to three weeks or so. In due course I shall move them on to a new collection in the 2nd Gallery and you will then find them here :

http://ronfisher2.fotopic.net/c1898137.html

Hope that they are of interest.

 

does anyone know what Stage coaches plans are for this stock, after all it will reach a point where they will have to be replaced, either that or you vertually rebuild the units from the chassis up , As they are now owned by SWT and not on lease i would expect them to be run until spares are not availible and then the line will either become a community railway or end up being closed because of the revenue will not make it cost effective to buy new stock even second hand tube cars
I wonder ? its a good job that the IOWSR have invested in larger engines because they could very well find themselves supplying the motive power for a ryde st johns to shanklin service

 

I have read that SWT are planning to keep the 1938 trains running until their franchise expires in 2017.

So, hopefully, we can enjoy them for a bit longer yet.

 

Apparently Piccadilly Line stock is the next available thats suitable for IoW conversion - i.e. manually driven, can be converted to two-car operation with guard-operated doors etc. Unfortunately with the replacement of the 73TS now looking unlikely for another decade, and NR deciding that the signalling is fit for purpose till the end of the franchise (ruling out a loop at Brading and the possible extension of the IWSR to Ryde), it looks like status quo for possibly another decade.

Chris

 

On a TV documentary it was stated that the Isle of Wight receives £1 million per annum in rail subsidy. Network Rail then charge £1.25million for them to run the 1938 tube stock on NR metals! If newer stock is introduced, the access charge payable to NW will increase!
In 1967 an editorial in "Railway World" suggested regearing some 08s to increase their speed and use them to haul passenger trains on the island.

 

Being pulled by a 45mph 08 is not something i'd look forward too....

 

Errrr,

I understand that Network Rail do not hold the track, It comes under the entire franchise undertaking (stock, stations, rail, etc). I understand this is unique for the current IUK set up.

Regards,
Ian

 

While day-to-day maintenance is the responsibility of the franchise holder, carried out by a sub-contractor, the infrastructure is still owned by NR and Island Line still have to pay track access charges etc. This is why major track renewals, re-signalling etc are the responsibility of NR.

Chris

 

Aaah,

I stand (or sit) corrected!

Regards,
Ian

 

i expect that Network rail would be going down the community rail partnership route with the Ryde to Shankin line and short branches in general.

they will have to look at ways of spending less money without closing branches that dont pay for themselves once their funding gets cut back

 

We are currently in a state of flux as regards the replacement of 73TS on the Piccadilly Line, it may be that we get the same signalling system as the Sub Surface Lines (SSL), as the Picc shares track with both the District and Metropolitan Lines. That would be in the region of 2018 to 2022. It looks like a replacement fleet will be ordered for the Piccadilly and Bakerloo Lines at the same time, so 72TS could also be available for IoWR services although I am not sure whether they have any double ended units on the Bakerloo Line. The 73TS double ended units at 3-cars whereas the 72TS double ended units are 4-cars, so if either of these options are chosen there will ultimately be an increase in capacity!

Ah the joys of having to square a public transport budget in the face of national spending restraint...

Regards,

Dan

 

A shame NR didn’t fix the height of the tunnel at Ryde the other year when the road above was closed for major road works. Maybe by now the Island line could have been running standard gauge rolling stock and done away with LT stock. Maybe the CiGs could have continued in service on the island line.

 

The only way to increase the height of the tunnel is to dig out the floor - the section of roof they replaced is under a roundabout which has steel beams, the rest is mainly brick arches. Even if you did completely replace the roof of the tunnel at vast expense, you still have to dig out the trackbed under various other bridges and lower the platform lines - and once you've done that you might still have a problem with the length of modern rolling stock, which i believe meant that surburban mk1's were looked at for the Island... a very expensive shopping list of changes!

Dan, with regards to the 73TS once of the reasons its suitable for the Island is that it should be capable of being converted to two-car operation - trains need to be doubled up during the summer and 6-car trains would be both overkill and probably wouldnt fit at Ryde Pier Head or Shanklin given how far they stop from the buffers these days because of various incidents...

Chris

 

Really?! I could have sworn the compressor was on the trailer car, which would mean you would require a 3-car formation unless some serious re-engineering was undertaken. Perhaps removing the rheostatic brake and the associated resistor grids on the motor cars would free up space for the compressor raft, but that isn't a small job. Then again, after 40+ years of service they would require a major refurbishment anyway plus conversion to 750V d.c. traction supply.

Regards,

Dan

 

Well the need to move the compressor would tie in with the 73TS being described as the next available stock with enough room beneath the underframe, and didnt the 38TS need similar work?

Anyway, my greatest concern is whether the current stock is going to last another decade - put it this way, i always wondered why the ex-IoW Standard Stock at Acton has never run despite a heritage set being put together. They might've been in bad nick but they werent that bad surely... well, 2:12 into this youtube video says it all!

Chris

 

I think driving an 08 at 45mph along there would've helped increasing the clearance!

 

Great videos - thanks for the link. My recollection is this Standard Stock unit returned to the mainland via the Isle of Wight ferry but then moved to London under its own (3rd rail) power - not being 'withdrawn' by BR until after it was handed over to LUL. Always wished I'd seen that somewhere along the journey! Most of these cars have remained out in the rain at Acton ever since. The unrestored four car unit under cover in the museum depot consists of two Isle of Wight trailers and two DMs which had survived in the LUL Engineering fleet.

 

There's another batch of 1938 tube stock pictures on my Fotopic site if anyone is interested to have a look. Here's the first one :



Clicking on the picture will enlarge it and take you to the others. Alternatively, click on this link :

http://ronfisher2.fotopic.net/c1907221.html

At the moment they are in the 'Stop Press!' collection for new pictures. In due course, however, I shall transfer them to the Isle of Wight collection and you will then find them here with the other pictures :

http://ronfisher2.fotopic.net/c1898137.html

Hope that they are of interest.

 

without wishing to sound pesamistic i honestly cant see NR/SWT wishing to spend anything after 2017, what will most likily happen is that the council will take over responsibility of the structures and that a community rail partnership will be formed involving the IOW SR to run the railway during the spring to auturm period , mind you prehaps this might be a ideal line for the next generation of parry vehicles single rail cars to keep a local service going, they would be cheeper to build to the island loading gauge and you would only need a couple for the low season

 

I see no reason to think they wont spend the money, after all SWT were quite open about getting the 73TS until TfL cancelled the replacement stock, and NR have used the cost of future work as a reason for the high (?) track access charges Island Line pay. What they wont do is spend more money than they have to, though i suspect they will eventually invest in a Brading loop to reduce signalling and track infrastructure.

Chris