Jacobite 2023

Further update from West Coast Railway’s Facebook page.
Normal service will possibly be resumed on the 15th August:

 

The British obsession with H & S has been a significant contributor factor, as has been noted analogous mainline trips abroad trust passengers sense much more.

 

I suggest that Europe is a very different place, inward opening train doors being an obvious example

 

Rather depends on the outcome of any forthcoming JR, if it doesn't go in favour of the operating ToC unless they can rustle up 2 sets of CDL fitted stock next year and beyond could be an entirely different kettle of fish!

Or those abroad being less inclined to rapidly seek recourse and compensation via litigation should something go wrong.

I know I go on about this like a broken record, but despite the much loved blaming of everything on H&S, the driver is more often than not cautious insurers who don't want their fingers burnt by the urge many have in this country to seek compensation, where there's blame there's a claim and all that!

 

Aas happened to a former neighbour of mine though who fell on some bodged road repairs there is a real cost to this both in terms of pain and suffering, and of course income.

Imagine what sort of costs the state has to shoulder if someone cant work and has dependants or needs lifetime care just because some prat doesn't think the rules of the road apply to them.

By the same token of course if you are injured and there isnt anyone to blame then you are on your own so its a far from perfect system.

 

The Belmond Pullmans have inward opening doors and the staff/passenger ratio is probably higher than any other train but within two years they will have to be fitted with CDL.

 

Isn't it awful that H&S has to step in to look after where people won't be responsible for their own safety, and we have an increasingly Americanised attitude to blame-claim scenarios.

It's any business to take reasonably practicable steps to ensure safety.

It appears that it has been decided that Central locking is seen as a reasonably practicable step, and I believe this largely stems from Familiarity with auto-open/close and lock systems- and unfamiliarity with manual opening.

Blame technology and progress.

Not the H&S people trying to look after everyone's safety.

Chris

 

The bottom line about all this H&S malarky is that there are a lot of people at home tonight who would be six foot under if it wasnt for it.

I saw Ricky Tomlinson talking about the deaths of colleagues on building sites that he witnessed, almost all entirely preventable, and these days they are to a large extent prevented.

 

Very true John , I worked on many a building site and H&S helped big time but you can’t legislate for folk without any common sense in any surrounding.

 

H&S is now about prevention & a big part of that is making employers legally responsible for the safety of those people on their site or workplace. I am sure the 'litigation culture' does scare business owners, but it does focus minds, perhaps overcoming the urge to cut corners to save £. This may result in what some may consider overcautious behaviour, but that has got to be better than not assessing all potential risks. I often hear reference to 'using common sense', in my experience it is not very common at all & I have seen plenty examples of it missing completely..
Surely we can all agree that preventing accidents is far better than waiting for them to happen - then reacting?
Its not so long ago that it was generally accepted that a few people might get injured or lose their lives in major construction projects or within the building industry, fortunately today if something like that happens it's rightly front page news.
The construction industry has transformed itself and if someone goes to work they can be pretty sure if they (& their colleagues) follow the rules they will return home to their loved ones in one piece. I think we all have a right to expect that don't we? Likewise members of the public have a right to a safe day out.

 

You can legislate though and providing a company can prove it took all reasonable steps to protect that person then if a person decides to be an idiot then a company would not be liable, for example refusing to wear PPE, not using correct tool for job etc. Providing the correct PPE and tools were available (& said person had received correct training in use) it's not the company's fault if a person refuses to use them and gets injured.
As an aside, all reasonable steps would include that once that risk has been identified then you should ensure agreed control measures are actually in place, (to bring this thread back on track).
Of course injury lawyers get rich on defining the word 'reasonable'.

 

Forstry and Agriculture had a record breaking number of deaths in a month earlier this year I believe.

Some of the comments above seem to suggest that's OK.

You know, because we have always worked like that?

Chris

 

Agriculture is dominated by family businesses with people working for themselves with no supervision. The accident record has consequently always been high.

 

There was an incident some years ago involving a farmer & a friend of my older brother.

My comment was 'How could he be so Stupid' but as my younger brother pointed out farmers - and other small business's dont have a Health & Safety/Human Resources/whatever to curb their enthusiasm. hence the 'Git Orf My Land' towards people on public footpaths etc

 

Absolutely, & it will be a massive challenge to lower those figures as a result. Certainly around here, there are a number of small family businesses, passed down through generations - with very strong ideas on 'how things should be done'. Change is viewed suspiciously, especially if it involves extra regulation & / or costs.
Many are also lone workers, working in very remote areas too.
Agriculture is probably where the building industry was 40 years ago, it is a big focus and headache for the HSE.

 

It has always been high, however this year has been particularly bad.

We deliver a lot of training to agricultural and forestry businesses, its sad to see statistics like this year when ther had been a slow but steady reduction in fatalities.

My post was more about the attitudes shown by some posters basically giving the impression we shouldn't collectively try to do better.

Chris

 

More than happy to have a chinwag with you about this incident @J Shuttleworth
https://www.railmagazine.com/news/n...-coast-railways-responds-to-steam-prohibition

Am I being perfidious or naive?
I’m sure your prep school education will be able to tell us.

 

Why are you bringing things up from 8 years ago that have nothing to do with this?

I think the word you are looking for is petty.

 

It’s not really a problem for the HSE as self employed people they are responsible for their own stupidity. If they had employees the company I worked for offered a risk reduction service and advice on the responsibilities as an employer but it is a fairly unique business in that the employer/employee relationship is different to most where they are both doing the same job. An employee can well pick up bad habits by seeing how his employer works and cuts corners. Trying to unjam machinery without turning it off first was very common, nine times out of ten they would get away with it but if the tenth they would lose a hand of an arm.