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Just found this footage...

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by dublo6231, May 27, 2014.

  1. dublo6231

    dublo6231 Member

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    Hi all,

    Mods not sure if this would be the right place to post a link of this nature so feel free to move if needed:



    It's a clip taken at Dent station in 1983 and shows Duchess of Hamilton slipping very badly restarting a heavy train on the curve having come to a stand in the middle of the station.

    I'm just wondering if this was effect of a boiler carry over similar to that of Blue Peter's demise at Durham in 1994 but luckily without the same consequences - as eventually she restarts the train and moves away quite smoothly.

    Thanks to anyone who may care to comment.

    Phil
     
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  2. threelinkdave

    threelinkdave Well-Known Member

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    It may have been water carry over, I have read more likely when safetys are open as that tends to raise the water level locally. The throttle was certanly stuck open. From the way the crew jumped straight off the footplate and gave the loco a thorough check they may have been expecting significant damage. Perhaps Mr Stanier made his locos of sterner stuff. I believe they would have been good for 130mph given a straight piece of track.

    Having upset the Late & Never Early I'll get me coat
     
  3. Victor

    Victor Part of the furniture Friend

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    I don't think I would have liked to witness the Blue Peter episode if that was a taster. It wasn't pleasant to see.
     
  4. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    Phil, I too believed that the damage to Blue Peter was due to water carry-over, but it appears that this was not the case. A recent thread on here described the incident as told by the owner's representative who was on the footplate. Makes interesting reading. Ray.
     
  5. Big Dave

    Big Dave New Member

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    Apparently they could be a real handful at times and have huge bouts of slipping.
    I think it was Derek Cross who described a Duchess slipping at Motherwell and wearing the rail through to the web.
    If the regulator sticks open what choice have you apart from opening the taps and try to get her into mid gear sounds easy to say might not be so easy to do.

    Cheers Dave
     
  6. Shed9C

    Shed9C New Member

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    Doesn't make for very pleasant viewing :( even if the regulator stuck open surely it shouldn't have been open so much in the first place? Luckily no damage :cool:
     
  7. RalphW

    RalphW Part of the furniture Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Oh so it's the drivers fault for opening the regulator to much, so how are you able to ascertain, with any degree of certainty from that clip, how much the relegulator was open?
     
  8. Shed9C

    Shed9C New Member

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    Of course no way of knowing the regulator opening exactly, but it must have been a fair bit for the wheels to spin that fast...
    Not trying to start a war Ralph, just saying it was a bit too cringeworthy and close to the Blue Peter incident for me :cool:
     
  9. Big Dave

    Big Dave New Member

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    Look, I've mentioned this before if you get water into the superheater tubes then it will generate it's own steam irrespective of the regulator opening.
    Only Sentinel that I know of had the regulator at the dry end.

    Cheers Dave
     
  10. Shed9C

    Shed9C New Member

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    Absolutely, but I read marshall5's post above regarding water carry-over not being the case as referring to 46229, rather than Blue Peter! Either way, still not pleasant to see.
     
  11. andrewtoplis

    andrewtoplis Member

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    Which thread please, Ray?
     
  12. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    It was posted in the Tangmere thread on 21st March. Ray.
     
  13. Steve

    Steve Part of the furniture Friend

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    That'll be my post. With 60532, I didn't say that there wasn't any water carry over; I did say that water carry over was not the reason why the regulator wasn't closed and there is a big difference. Returning to this thread, looking at the exhaust at the first slip, it is 'see through' so water carry over is unlikely to be a prime cause. The reg is obviously stuck open, though, and the driver does the brave thing and opens it again (and again) to try and close it. You need to have been there to experience it. It is easy to say wind it into mid gear and open the cocks but you start off fighting with the regulator and you can't do everything at once. I've only ever been one one loco with an uncontrolled slip and, although it sounded awful and seemingly lasted an age, the speedo never went above 50mph (I was an observer and not in the driving seat). I wonder what the one on 46229 read but I bet it wasn't into three figures.
     
  14. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    For those that are interested, I have just dug my notes out about this memorable incident. It occured on the Bank Holiday Saturday 28th May 1983 with 46229 working a 14 coach "Cumbrian Mountain Pullman" from Hellifield to Carlisle. A photo stop had been scheduled at Dent, but as the train was over an hour late due to delays on the West Coast Main Line this was cancelled. The brief stop was made to pick up the Carlisle Traffic Assistant who had come out to supervise the planned photo stop. My notes refer to the slip being related to the driver, in his eagerness to get away, overlooking the fact that the brakes on a 14 coach train take that bit longer to release, but after 30 years I would not take this as being gospel. I was in the support coach not on the engine. Once everything was under control, as far as I recollect the concern was more about damage to the rail head than the loco. A stationary slip like that makes a a significant dent (in fact six) in the rails, so much so that the rails were changed that night I believe.
    This was also the occasion that we had knocked up a little plaque with blue ribbon for "the most outstanding steam performance on the S&C since 1968", referring to a little romp up to Ais Gill that we enjoyed that Easter. This is seen on the front of the Duchess in the video. Happy Days, despite the odd drama now and again.

    Peter James
     
  15. Stu in Torbay

    Stu in Torbay New Member

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    Should have mounted the damaged track on the platform, under the 'Dent' sign.....
     
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  16. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Member

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    I seem to recall D. W. Winkworth in his book 'Bulleid Pacifics' (which contains a lot more than the title suggests!) commenting that on one occasion, when assessing the Bulleid's reputation as a notorious 'slipper', a 'Princess Coronation' spent nearly two hours slipping at a station under test conditions. Not having the book to hand, for some reason London Victoria during the 1948 trials springs to mind, but the puzzling thing is that there was no trials run from this station, as the Southern's trial route was Waterloo-Exeter, so it probably happened elsewhere, possibly on the LMS. I'm happy for someone to refresh my memory on this one...
     
  17. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    Haven't heard that one before, which isn't the same as saying it didn't happen. These engines, like the Bulleids, had a lot of power crammed through rather limited adhesion. I believe one is reputed to have once taken an hour to get its train clear of the platforms at Lime Street station.
     
  18. std tank

    std tank Member

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    I doubt it. They were always given a push by the jinty that brought the ECS in.
     
  19. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    Usually. I used to watch it often enough!

    This comes from 'Stanier Pacifics at Work' by A.J. Powell, Page 85. Ozzie Nock said in Railway magazine of March 1960 that "...a Duchess attempting to start the 500 ton 'Red Rose' from Lime Street station when, with no rear end assistance available, the driver struggled for almost an hour (his italics) before finally getting the train out of the platform."
     
  20. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Member

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    That rings a bell; I think this was the event Winkworth was on about.
     

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