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Kent Circular - November 11th

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by Big Al, Nov 2, 2013.

  1. green five

    green five Resident of Nat Pres

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    Blimey! I only posted the video clip of Bearsted bank with a tongue in cheek response to Kent Yeti's question to show that it had been assisting 44932. It was not my intention to cause the uproar that has since appeared on this thread.
    What was the cause for the delay to the trip?
     
  2. OldGit

    OldGit New Member

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    Does anyone know why 44932 and its train crept into Eynsford 6 min down (behind a late running service train) and then sat there staring at a green signal for a further 8 minutes before moving off quite sure footedly (no doubt helped by the box on the back)?
     
  3. OldGit

    OldGit New Member

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    Rolling into Eynsford
     

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  4. threelinkdave

    threelinkdave Well-Known Member

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    Purely an educated guess - to get a gap to the late running service ahead. Given the good route knowledge drivers need there may have been an assessment of where the service ahead would most likely result in a red. It might well have been in an unsuitable place. Better to wait and follow at a steady speed rather than stop start. if the service ahead was a stopper getting a gap would have been even more important. As I said its just a guess.
     
  5. A1X

    A1X Well-Known Member

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    To be fair though they're plied with enough wine that they probably don't remember much of it.
     
  6. OldGit

    OldGit New Member

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    That makes sense - Thanks!
     
  7. 46236

    46236 Well-Known Member

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    whoaaaaa ralph, jumping on ur hat?
     
  8. 83B

    83B Member

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    This is a very good point and if electrics are slipping and sliding, a steam loco will certainly do the same. If I was assured that when the leaf fall season is over, steam trains would run in Kent (or anywhere else for that matter) I would be the first to dig deep into my pocket. Sadly, I suspect that the current trend (VT excepted), will continue at a time when we not be able to use falling leaves as an excuse.
     
  9. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    remeber the 4 seasons of Steam..

    Autumn - leaf fall season, steam banned
    Winter - too much snow, nothing goes no matter what
    Spring - floods, steam canceled for our safety
    Summer - too hot, steam banned for everyone elses safety.

    in between that we have The Great Britain Gap, where all rules are relaxed for big wallets, The Religious Passage, where rules are relaxed for the Cath Explorer and occasionally the Hollywood glamour, which avoids all rules and restrictions.
     
  10. KentYeti

    KentYeti Guest

    Is that because of what they are being plied with?

    Or because of who is doing the plying?

    If the latter, I'll be getting me some tickets....................
     
  11. camraman

    camraman Member

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    What exactly is the current trend you refer to?
     
  12. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    I think we've established that the Kent Circular needed some assistance or, at least, NR may have expected it because of previous issues on Martin Mill in the autumn. In other instances when a reverse shunt move is required at the destination there is often a need for a diesel. So on 23/11, at Shrewsbury it should be fine. In the past at Lincoln it has also usually been ok. At Holyhead, it depends on how much time is available between other services, I think. At Manchester Piccadilly it probably would not be ok etc etc.

    I think we all have to also accept the fact that when a DL is needed at the destination then it costs nothing to take it with you (and WCR has to do that because they don't have DLs scattered about the country waiting to be used). Neither does DBS but at least there is usually something close. So unless the passenger is prepared to pay for the cost of extra paths then we'll have to accept, I guess, what happens currently. But remember that on big trips like the GB tours a DL does follow the train rather than hang off the back. So at times the planning/costing must factor in these moves.

    That leaves the instances when the presence of a DL is known about in advance but the operator chooses not to say in its publicity (or ask the TOC what they intend to do when the trip is planned). It would, of course, deter some people if that information was 'up front' but to not do so when it is known is misleading and that's a Trades Description matter. Take the poor publicity (in my view) of the Tynesider when you only had to look at what was on the website originally and the provisional times, coupled with what happened in 2012, to know that steam would not return from KX, as will be the case.

    I won't travel behind steam when I know that a DL will be present and it is obvious from the length of train and motive power up front that it will have to assist to keep time or climb hills. But I don't see any reason why these trips shouldn't run if there are people out there who don't mind. All that needs to happen is that operators must be open about what is going on from the outset and not allow this detail to leak out. (What's wrong with a line in the publicity that says "This trip will involve a diesel attached at the rear for shunting purposes/train heating"?)

    I've seen and been on enough of these trips now to know that there are only a minority of cases when something "last minute" (often NR related) causes a change such as the addition of a DL. The other cases are, in my view, as a result of poor planning, poor checking of the detail in advertised copy or poor communication/openness with the public. It's time for this to stop. Nobody gains by it continuing.

    (Sorry everyone and Mods. This may not be the place for the peroration and it's not as if it hasn't been said before!)
     
  13. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Part of the furniture

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    Just get used to more diesels on the back - I'm not trying to 'troll', but its increasingly becoming a fact of life to ensure the minimum of delay to service trains. I'm afraid the time of the single-handed steam trip is fast diminishing because of the risk-averse culture prevalent on NR, thus it is rapidly leaving the hands of the organisers and to some extent WCRC. Whilst sad, I can understand the generally practical reasons behind it, and am willing to accept it as long as steam remains on the network in some form or another. In the end, I enjoyed the trip; I got to cover a few miles of winning track, and got back to London at a reasonable time. The railhead conditions on the Maidstone East section appeared abysmal, and NR decided to let the service train run ahead of us at Otford Jc. rather than allow us to continue to the booked water stop at the loop at Lenham and suffer from slipping. We were thus brought to a stand at Borough Green, and it appears that all electric services on the route were slipping on the gradients due to leaves. 44932 was slipping several times on the gradients, so I think that having the diesel at the back was a particularly prudent measure in this instance. Even then things were dicey...
     
  14. Enterprise

    Enterprise Part of the furniture

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    You might be right. If you are, I will just stop spending about £400 a trip and do something else that I and SWMBO enjoy.
     
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  15. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Part of the furniture

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    Its getting increasingly that way. Stating the obvious, and leaving the principle of 'open access' aside, I doubt NR would shed a tear if steam suddenly disappeared from the network.
     

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