L&B Coach at the NRM

Maybe a compromise would be for the NRM to advertise the L&B fundraising campaign for its heritage coaches - then visitors might drop some spare change into a box by coach 2, which could be sent on to the Essex group rebuilding the coaches?

 

I would argue that the coach still has a story to tell - that of the public narrow gauge railway, which we don't otherwise do...

 

Nice idea Martin, but in these cash straitened times I don't see my fundraising colleagues agreeing to us fundraising for someone else's project. Sorry!

 

At the risk of being thought a trifle waspish, museums sometimes seem to default to the negative!

 

I wouldn't exactly say negative, just different to preserved railways...as a lifelong enthusiast, those who know me would not necessarily say I am negative - but museums have slightly different objectives.

 

The original poster started a thread about this coach on the NRM Media section, to which I wrote a comment but the Mods didn't ok it, presumably because the thread was in the wrong section.

I do not believe that 001 should be 'restored', for I believe that so much of the invaluable original fabric would be lost as to make it near as dammit a new-build replica. Therefore, why not built a new-build replica, thereby conserving 001 in the condition in which it came into preservation and museum ownership - that is to say at the end of its working life as a chicken coop, when it became an artefact. It has a better story to tell to us and future generations - for we are only custodians of heritage for the next generation - in its current state than as a fully restored operating carriage. It tells us not only about the original L&B to some extent, but documents the fate that met so many carriages at the end of their operating lives. By maintaining it 'as is', it to an extent gives us carte blanche to restore many other carriages saved in a similar condition back to their former glory.

It would be all very well to say when sat in a fully restored 001 rolling along the Exmoor hills 'isn't this nice we're riding in an original L&B carriage', but it wouldn't be true for at least 80% of it would have to be lost in the restoration - irretrievably. Rather, look at 001 and say 'I am looking at an original L&B carriage' then (after 8 hours or so driving...) get into a repro 001 and set off on your journey from Woody Bay.

It is the same story with some, far from all, of the locomotives in preservation. 46235 is an example of a crack express locomotive exactly as it was at the end of BR steam and as such, in my opinion, ought not be restored to steam or repainted. 4003 is an example of Swindon workmanship in both manufacture and overhaul. 60010 DofC serves the same purpose as 46235, as does 34051. By keeping these locomotives 'as is' - as artefacts - it allows us to operate other locomotives with no fear that we are threatening the inheritance of future generations, for long after the death of us all, the demise of heritage steam railways and when the steam operated railway is but a tenth of a 1500 year long history of railed transport, those people of the future will still be able to look upon a small collection of locomotives and carriages as they were when steam was king.

 

I agree with dampflok, now there is a L&B railway this carriage would have a better story to tell if it was running with its rebuilt sisters. yes parts and bodywork may have to be replaced, but thats the same with any carriage or wagon that you restore. If we took the attitude of just leaving an item as a time capsule then we would have never seen bluebell or the iowsr restore any of their 4/6 wheelers. i dont think those railways have plans for any of their coach bodies to remain summer houses or chicken coops. They will all be restored at some point. Also disagree with guard jamie about city of birmingham. Its wasted in the thinktank where it isnt appreciated. should be sent to tysley and given the proper treatment.

 

How about the thousands of visitors to Thinktank each year who "don't appreciate it"? Do bear in mind that we as enthusiasts make up a small percentage of visitors to museums/heritage railways or other attractions. Just because something isn't in steam or operating doesn't mean it's wasted.

However it's fine to disagree, we just ought to respect we all have differing views - after all, if we were all the same, it'd be really boring.

 

As a follow-up to this discussion, could I ask all those interested in seeing L&B replica coaches to dig a little into their pockets?
Just a fiver would do!!
To help the Heritage Coaches fund at the L&B go to: The Last Great Railway Adventure - the Legendary L&B | Lynton_&_ Barnstaple_Railway and click on the blue square with 'Heritage Coaches Project'. That link will explain how to donate to the project using Paypal. This will help get 17 and 7 running later this year, and then several of the other coaches.

Thanks!!!

 

I don't think that is true. I agree the aim of most railway preservation organisations is that most preserved items should be restored to usable condition. Nothing wrong with that. But the argument here is that a few things are so special or so original they should not be touched, other than to prevent further decay.

Since so many original parts would have to be replaced what is the objection to building a replica instead? Hardly anyone would be able to tell the difference.

 

The difference I see between the L&B coach and the ones at Bluebell, IoW, Embsay, etc that have been restored is most of the restored ones were basically bodies, nothing more. The L&B coach is still pretty much a coach, not a pile of rotting wood. You only have to look on the Bluebell website to see how much wood gets replaced when these coaches are restored.

 

I agree that this is an important historical item which serves to demonstrate the story of our narrow gauge history, as it is. Otherwise the coach would be restored, probably having over 50% of it's parts replaced or modified so some, two years (maximum) later it would be forgotten and people move on to the next new thing. It would have lost it's story and uniqueness and become just another coach which for 95% of it's passengers would be indistinguishable from the rest of the L&B carriages.

80% of our family does not care that much that we are sitting on original seats stuffed with genuine horse hair, what we want is a comfortable ride, plesant scenery, maximum view out of the window and above all clean. All of those factors can be achieved by other means without sacrificing a fascinating story for future generations.

 

I still think it should still be restored, even if it doesnt get sent to the L&B or any other preserved line. it should be restored and displayed properly in the NRM in a small L&B section with, as someone said earlier the original nameplates and the mini-taw. It would certainly be far more pleasing on the eye than in its current state, and i think more people would take notice of it and possibly develop more of an interest in the L&B and narrow gauge railways as a whole.

Maybe another reason why noone has taken an interest in restoring it is the lack of third class seating it has? I believe its a first class observation brake, so its seating is limited. Actually I read that the new L&B were going to do coach 4 after 17 but 4 also has no third class seating so its gonna be 10 or 11 now. We shall see.

 

Indeed. There are always plenty of "convincing" reasons for doing nothing.

 

I sometimes question the motives of some at the NRM. For a number of years, an NRM staff member prevented the few remaining movie clips of the old railway from being posted on the internet depite never being able to demonstrate that copyright had been transferred to him. Those films could well have helped develop interest in the L&B. Countless items in the NRM are displayed 'restored' rather than in the pitiful condition they were originally in. Why choose an L&B coach when there is usually so little about narrow gauge at York?The original details of this coach could just as easily be stored or displayed unattached to the coach itself. I see no purpose in maintaining the coach in its present condition other than to prevent any interest or enthusiasm from the general public.Now that the L&B project is under way, I really think that the Trust should be offered the opportunity of restoring and operating it.

Please note that this is a personal opinion only.

 

but would it be restored properly or would it just be fixed up and then flogged to death and left stand in the rain? A replica coach would be cheaper to build than it would be to restore an old coach properly. Once it's gone, it's gone

I don't think you are helping your cause by berating the NRM. They have different responsibilites to you. Most Preserved Railways pay scant regard to actually portraying their lines as they were, and are there mostly for their members to play trains with.

This coach is ideal to portray the part of the story that relates to the uses many hundreds of old coaches and wagons were put to after service.

 

This thread has gone four pages with no-one mentioning paint so....

I presume the existing white and green scheme is post L&B and that at the time of closure the coach would have been in Southern Railway green?

For what it's worth I have to agree with the previous post (Reading General) in that a replica coach would be a more worthwhile option. Ok, a replica wouldn't be the original but then again nor would the majority of the latter be once it had been restored.

 

"I don't think you are helping your cause by berating the NRM. They have different responsibilites to you. Most Preserved Railways pay scant regard to actually portraying their lines as they were, and are there mostly for their members to play trains with."

Firstly, I finished my post stating that I was giving a personal opinion. I find it very strange that despite the NRM displaying mostly standard gauge (and rightly so) the only unrestored coach is narrow gauge.

I draw your attention to the exceptional restoration work performed by the WHHR on two original coaches and also the FR for maintaining historic coaches in near perfect condition.

Your viewpoint on 'most preserved railways' is certainly original. Of course preserved railways have been launched by enthusiasts....... we would have no steam railways now if they had not dedicated their time and money to these projects.

 

my comment on preserved lines isnt meant to be derogatory. It is the case that they exist primarily for the enjoyment of their members.Few of them portray an accuarate picture to educate the public as to what railways really were like,that is why Museums have an important role. That you are trying to re-open this line (and more power to you) is not sufficent reason to lay claim to this coach.(One day when you have a museum display which offers proper controlled preservation for artifacts, then yes, it might make sense, but to restore it would be to destroy its current state and should not be allowed imho