Large and Small locomotive economics, ex-West Somerset Railway developments

We really have drifted away from the big v small loco debate now. Such is the way of the internet!

 

'In steam' was a bad choice of words. I should have put 'with a fire in'. I've been digging to see if I can find any specific reference but all guidance these days relates to automatically controlled boilers and the old HSE PM5 is no more, superseded by SAFED Guidance BG01. However, even with boilers fitted with minimal auto controls the BG01 guidance is that a boiler operator should be on site when the boiler is operating and able to respond immediately to alarms. By 'operating' it means being fired. Loco boilers don't even have any auto controls or alarm systems so it is difficult to argue that this level of supervision is not required. There is no absolute law preventing it but, as I said, you would be on a sticky wicket if anything went wrong and even a melted fusible plug is reportable, these days.

 

Clearly it is a risk that many lines are prepared to take in the interest of greater economy of fuel and maintenance, though.

 

Well it seems to be how one chooses to interpret the regs. Clearly in the case I described we are not actively firing the boiler when we come back on shed although it is possible that there is residual heat generating capacity in the remains of the fire. However this capacity is only going to reduce with time so does that count as actively firing the boiler I wonder? Certainly once the fireman gets off no possibility exists that the boiler can be fired s there is no man to do it so perhaps manual controls are better than auto controls in this case? The boiler is under continuous supervision during the time it's actively being fired and asked to make steam. So perhaps stabling a loco at the end of the day is akin to shutting a modern boiler down? As a point of interest at what size of boiler do these regs kick in? I regularly leave my heating boiler, with auto controls and auto safety systems to it's own devices when I'm out.

 

My own approach to this is to come back on shed with the bars still covered with live fire, the brick arch will be red hot (certainly on the WSR anyway!) & steam still well up.
When the loco has been stabled and the boiler has been initially filled (to say just above the top of the glass) the steam pressure will be carefully noted (probably 160psi by now on a 225 loco) & then the loco will be left for say 15 to 20 minutes whilst we wash/have tea/lock tools away etc etc. If on checking after that 15 to 20 mins the pressure has not risen it can reasonably be concluded that the boiler is not making further steam & the loco can be safely left as no new fuel will have been added. If the pressure has risen then clearly the boiler is still making steam & measures to prevent that are needed before leaving. With a little experience it is possible to get the balance right & arrive back with just the right amount of fire/water/steam without having been prematurely short - or needing to stay on late until the risk of the boiler blowing off unattended has gone.

 

Being fired doesn't necessarily limit it to putting fresh coal on. There is a lot of residual energy in the firebed.
To answer your last question, if your boiler temperature exceed 110°C and pressure 0.5 bar, then you should comply with the Guidance if it is commercial or industrial (not domestic). However, if your (presumed central heating) boiler exceeds these limits, I'd be a bit concerned, in any case.

 

That's what we all aspire to do 1472. I must admit that I get it spot on right some of the time. I've never had to shovel one out yet though. It's a lot easier running back into MD of course than it is into BL at the e3nd of the day.

 

Just picked this up again after a few days other duties. You have to be guided by circumstances. If you arrive on shed with a bit more fire than is needed, you cater accordingly, ie. run the bar through to make sure there is no clinker attaching to the bars, then bar a big hole in the centre of the fire, leaving the hot coals up against the plates all round. This should prevent the engine making steam, bearing in mind their reluctance to do so when this happens accidentally!

You then deal with the problem the following morning; you can check the pressure after cleaning the smokebox, putting tools away, etc. I have, in the past, seen lighting - up cleaners with a massive back end and about 40 - 50 lbs on the clock with 40 minutes to go to off - shed, wondering why the engine wasn't coming round. A swift bar through, spreading the fire and the injunction, "You need a fire all across the box. Then the engine will make steam. That's what it was designed to do!"

The converse is true. If an engine doesn't have fire all across the box, it shouldn't make steam. The size of the engine obviously matters also. While I will happily leave a big back end in on, say, a Manor, an 8F, a Black 5, a Hall, I would not leave the same in on 4566, 5164, etc, depending on what steam they had on the clock. It is a joy to come to an engine in the morning and find a few lbs on the clock. This means the blower will keep the clag out of the cab. If you have done the business on a bigger machine and you come to your Black 5 with 110lbs on the clock and a big back end, you could go off and run a small country for a couple of hours, before returning with a bent dart and a shovel.

I am on a diner next week and should have 4566. I will put a small fire in on the Tuesday and oil the engine, top the fire up before I leave, then I know when my fireman arrives the following day, even if the fire has gone out, the water will be close to boiling and it won't be long before it comes round.

Like everything else, it comes down to experience.

Regards,

jtx

 

P. S.

I wouldn't be putting a big back end in Sir Keith Park, because the Bulleid Pacifics are such sublime steam producers. A bit of circumspection is required: I don't have sufficient experience yet - but I hope to acquire it!

Regards,

jtx

 

Hi there, I did hear from a NYMR driver that if a King or a Castle fell in the sea then it would "bloody well float" . Now being a bit green I had to ask why? He told me well they have 124 corks that obviously need attention. Well he was a LNER man so, I maybe wrong here but I don't believe they had any 4 cylinder locos and maybe he was northern softie.

Many thanks Steve for your excellent "day in the life of" I did have a foot plate trip, Grosmont - Pickering - Grosmont and the driver was Chris of Lambton Tank fame. He was very good on the day but hearing it all from you in the cold light of day let me take it all in. I am hoping to make another visit to the NYMR maybe for the Spring Gala later in the year, it is quite a trip from Hampshire so fingers crossed it will all be worthwhile.

 

I do find it absolutely fascinating reading about the different foot plate crews on different lines and how you all go about your days work. I know you are not doing it for my benefit being an armchair enthusiast but riveting non the less.