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Liveries!

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 61624, Jan 17, 2018.

  1. jsm8b

    jsm8b Active Member

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    Scope for another thread entirely I think !

    (Open Question ) How do you use your camera, in place of the spotters notebook or to create a visually stimulating image ?
    Nothing wrong with either approach but perhaps those who concentrate on the latter would be worthy of the description of a true photographer. ( Off to find the tin hat and duck for cover :Wasntme: )
     
  2. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    The great attraction of the Bluebell is that it also has the rolling stock to go with them.
     
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  3. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    When it comes to matching liveries, this is what we had to put up with in the 80s. just be grateful

    4498 Claydon, Banbury 11-05-86.jpg
     
  4. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Not just the livery of the rolling stock but 4498 never ran with a double chimney and no valances in LNER days. Does it matter though? Of course it doesn't.
     
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  5. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    The SVR do seem to try and put some thought into how they present trains. On the face of it this is a mismatch but look a bit further. We have a Bulleid Pacific with the S&D passenger headcode on the teak coaches. In black and white there is no real evidence that they are not in BR livery. So we have a fair representation of the Exmouth -Cleethorpes which was SR/ER stock on alternate days.

    On another gala day I heard a couple of people moaning about Cheltenham in SR livery coupled to the teaks. As the only pre 1948 liveried engine there I was quite happy with this as I'm sure there was a regular Sheffield - Margate excursion in the 1930s

    189m2 34053 Eardington 22-09-12.jpg
     
  6. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Part of the furniture

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    Indeed, and in any case a) there was no suitable engine to attach to the teaks at that gala IIRC, b) there were no suitable carriages to attach Cheltenham to and c) it looked damn good!
     
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  7. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    There was certainly a Leicester - Margate working. We have a pic of 34081 working it with teaks in tow, albeit in BR days.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
  8. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

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    A lot of the prejudice against supposedly is mismatched locos and stock is sadly born of ignorance.

    I remember not long after 60007's last overhaul a young volunteer bemoaning it being paired the LNER set at a gala, until an older member of staff pointed out to him that, carriages weren't all painted overnight and it took a few years for Mk1's to appear in great quantity.

    Sawdust.
     
  9. jsm8b

    jsm8b Active Member

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    The 90s were so much better :D

    32ct93c097 4498 Kirkby Stephen 110993.JPG
     
  10. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I’ve not seen a photo of a Schools on teaks, but I’ve seen a Bulleid livery Mogul hauling an LNER teak set, so clearly such matches were not uncommon. Likewise somewhere I’ve got a splendid photo of a Maunsell U in the mid 1930s hauling a chocolate and cream GWR set in the Wylye valley.

    The two gripes I have about supposed 1950s representations of trains (both on heritage lines and with even less excuse on model railways!) are (1) too many Mark 1s and too few grouping and pre-grouping carriages and (2) rakes being far too uniform in livery and types of vehicle. A quick perusal of photos will show that older carriages carried on well into the 1960s: they didn’t disappear the moment the prototype Mark 1 was built; and trains with a variety of carriage types (including maybe an odd off-region interloper on a through service); a van or two and so on were far from rare. A bit of variation in roof line never did anyone any harm!

    Tom
     
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  11. jsm8b

    jsm8b Active Member

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    I'm sure much of that is down to some peoples obsession that their pictures must be in colour. Increasingly these days I find myself producing more images in black and white where mismatches of livery becomes less of an issue.

    What I do think is unfortunate is that far too few pre nationalisation vehicles survived to justify having some of them in the liveries they carried in state ownership, but if there were I've no idea where they could all be stored.
     
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  12. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Ah, the Pilkington set. Such a subtle livery. :)
     
  13. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    For some of us who prefer colour, "mismatches" of livery are not an issue. As I said in a previous post, I am photographing steam in the 21st century, not 60 years ago.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
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  14. richards

    richards Part of the furniture

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    Unfortunately, as with most pastimes followed by enthusiasts, the idea of "correct" is only in the head of each individual, and you can't generalise.

    You can have a "visually stimulating image" using entirely 'authentic' objects or a mish-mash of colourful things. It depends on the photographer and the people looking at their photos.

    Add in the effect of historical selective memory where everything needs to be pristine and shiny, and it gets even more interesting.

    Also, few of the steam railways with historic stations and stock can operate exactly matched sets/locos. And then what should the staff wear? Anyone seen my top hat?

    It's a complete minefield, but unfortunately it doesn't stop some claiming they're "right".
     
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  15. 61648

    61648 Member

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    Why in earth would anyone complain about an A4 paired with LNER stock, regardless of whether the livery was right or not....???
     
  16. steam_mad

    steam_mad Member

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    The SRPS are hoping to have a nice range of locos and stock this year...

    - Caley 419 in Perth Blue, with two brown & cream Caledonian Railway coaches to match.
    - D49 Morayshire in LNER Apple green with three teak coaches.

    With work well advanced on two Stanier Period III TO's there is the opportunity for an LMS train in the future should 419 be transformed into No. 15189..!

    Whilst my personal preference is BR, Bo'ness will be in both a unique and vibrant place later in the year!
     
  17. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Part of the furniture

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    That sounds very appealing, pity it's so far away! :(
     
  18. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    Even when nominally turned out in the same livery, fading left stock looking less than uniform (in monochrome or colour shots) ... and that's before considering the exigencies of WWII, when even stock such as the converted ex-GNoSR railmotor carriages were seen on East Coast troop trains. Mention has been made of holiday trains, but does anyone else remember the many 'Football Specials' that (as they still do) constantly criss-crossed railway boundaries?

    Does the average casual visitor to a railway care (assuming they notice*) that stock is either non-uniform or "incorrect" in historic or geographic terms? I'd suggest 99% of such "caring" goes on amongst we enthusiast types!

    * No ... I'm not being derogatory. Most (hopefully) will be charmed by a thoroughly enjoyable experience and the overwhelming majority of those more concerned with whether they remember where they parked, or if nappies have been changed, or if the battery on the phone/camera will hold out, than whether a Hawksworth carriage should be seen behind a Taff Vale loco. Prove me wrong!
     
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  19. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Part of the furniture

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    I think you're probably right on most folk not noticing stock that is incorrect geographically/historically or what loco it matches up with, but I think they do like rakes to be fairly uniform in terms of livery - I certainly do even though I know it's perfectly reasonable to have several liveries all mixed up.
     
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  20. RLinkinS

    RLinkinS New Member

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    Thanks for that Tom. I had noted that this was the works pilot and your information certainly suggeststhat it was painted to the same standard as other locos. 11 days to paint a shunting engine. I believe that the Board asked Wainright to reduce the cost of painting some years later.
     

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