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Llangollen Railway

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by 14xx Lover, Jan 4, 2010.

  1. Steve

    Steve Part of the furniture Friend

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    If I'm reading the situation correctly, it does highlight a problem that can face many railways where there is a strong reliance on hiring in locos. To quote
    The railway is seemingly requiring a quick action to sort out the problem but it is out of their hands and they are not in control. I am a believer in hiring in locos as it generally spreads the cost, gives variety and supplements your own volunteer/paid staff base (and it is better to wear out someone else's loco! )but you should always have your own locos to fall back on so that you remain in overall control.
     
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  2. lil Bear

    lil Bear Member

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    Didn't the LR Trust buy shares in 3802 when Mike ??? passed away?
     
  3. Thompson1706

    Thompson1706 Member

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    Yes we did.

    Bob.
     
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  4. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    On of the problems down at llan might be a similar situation as to what has happened at other railways. Take the bluebell for instance. There was massive criticism about their lack of large locos and they didn't have enough steam a few years ago as all the funds were being diverted into the extension. Llangollen is in a similar situation as they have, and from the magazine's I have read, and still are pumping a lot of money into the extension year after year to complete it. There isn't an endless pit of money out there and until that extension is complete there probably isn't as much money spare to go around to improve other areas of the railway, such as the locos people wish to see in steam. Remember a lot of people donating to the railway are probably members of the loco groups and can't give to all things all the time.

    I have always thought that if all the GW locos formed together to make one group then things could happen a lot quicker. If your interest is in fundraising you could do a variety of helping at say the loco fundraising coach or take a sales stand to other events etc.
    If your interest is in heavy engineering you can do one loco, then move onto the next, same goes for owners reps, etc etc. Plus keeping costs down on producing multiple magazines for members, and postage etc etc. You would always have at least one loco in steam for members to see working etc etc and being able to say a group has a Manor, Grange, Hall, 2-8-0, Pannier, Small and large Prairie. What a society to be involved in!
     
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  5. 3855

    3855 Member

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    Sounds like a form of communism for gw locomotive owners...
     
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  6. 3855

    3855 Member

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  7. huochemi

    huochemi Member Friend

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    A letter appealing for funds, from the Trust's Chairman, arrived today with the calendar 2018 annual report, the letter being notable for its terseness and rather depressing tone. Basically the Trust has run out of (unrestricted) cash. The annual report is as usual less than informative, one major problem being the inability to distinguish between the Trust and the PLC, even though the latter is only 23% owned. I suspect this is in part due to the similar composition of the two boards (six of the eight trustees are directors of the PLC, which is obviously considered by the Trust to be a benefit although I would beg to differ). It is also not clear what if any cash the Trust has provided to the greater railway during 2018, the (modest) expenditure being classified into: costs of raising funds, "general costs"[?], and property costs[?]. If they want to raise some serous funds, they need to show that the corporate governance is up to scratch (and they probably need to seek out some new board members with cash, ideas or both), and a clear presentation of what the trust's activities/objectives are. (Apparently one of them is the management, maintenance and restoration of a heritage railway, which seems unlikely as that it was the PLC does.)
     
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  8. Thompson1706

    Thompson1706 Member

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    You really do need to get your facts right regarding who is responsible for what.
    The Trust is responsible for upkeep of all property, stations & infrastructure, as well as raising funds for the new Corwen station. The plc operates the railway & the engineering division.
    The dual roles on both boards does not present any problems with governance as far as we are concerned, although outsiders may have a different view. We don't have the internal bickering suffered by certain other railways.
    If there are any millionaires, billionaires or whatever out there we certainly don't have any at the moment so feel free to step forward !

    Bob.
     
  9. huochemi

    huochemi Member Friend

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    Thank you, that is useful information. I cannot however see the Trust's role is explained in those terms in the annual report, which strikes me as key to being able to judge how well it is performing against its mission and to understanding the accounts, and may be useful to the board to remind them of what they should be doing wearing their Trust hats. (The company secretary obviously struggles with his dual role as he always sends out notice of the Trust AGM as co. sec. of the PLC). It is also difficult to reconcile the role you describe to the Trust's stated objective of "management" of the railway (the principal activity of the Trust is stated later in the report only to be "repair and maintenance of transport equipment", which is somewhat inconsistent not to say vague). One assumes the PLC is the entity with all the necessary approvals for actually operating a service and which is the party with which a passenger contracts for a ticket (but I guess it would be useful for a passenger to be able to sue also the Trust on the basis they claim to be managing it!).

    Changing the subject, I note the total donations (Trust + PLC) for 2018 came to £105,000, which seems on the low side, even if there was no extension project. I think to assist in raising meaningful sums it would be helpful for the annual report to work for the railway, and function in a way which explains to supporters and potential supporters at least the following: 1. this is what we the Trust do, this is what Trading sub does, and this is the way we fit in with the PLC; 2. these are the areas/projects we need funds for and the estimated amounts / timing; 3. the role of both the Trust and the PLC in fund raising (as each is appealing for funds to the same audience); and also to generally give the format of the annual report a thorough overhaul and upgrade.
     
  10. Crusti Boiler

    Crusti Boiler New Member

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    In discussing the agm notices I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the losses posted by the Llangollen Railway for 2018.
    The PLC lost £330,601 according to its own accounts and the Trust lost £37,054 - that's £367,655 between them. That's a massive amount.

    Meanwhile there were no trains at all yesterday until 1400...............

    Of course the information in the agm notices could be c**p or perhaps the person issuing them didn't get their facts right?
     
  11. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    Screenshot_20190803-124305.png

    If anyone can donate to the trust I'm sure it would be most welcome. Like many other railways there are times where things all go wrong and it's tough. But preservation has proved time and time again that it can rally around and get things moving in the right direction.
     
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  12. Matt78

    Matt78 Well-Known Member

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    Jennifer has now returned to Llangollen having left the Gwili earlier this week.

    Regards

    Matt
     
  13. Daddsie71b

    Daddsie71b Member Friend

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    Standardisation/communism whats the difference? ;)
     
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  14. Glenmutchkin

    Glenmutchkin New Member

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    Is there any news on progress with Morayshire's overhaul?
     
  15. jamesd

    jamesd New Member

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    Don’t think it ran at the Gwili did it? It was just being repaired all the time!
     
  16. Matt78

    Matt78 Well-Known Member

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    Hi James

    No we sadly didn’t get to use her on services this year.

    Regards

    Matt
     
  17. Crusti Boiler

    Crusti Boiler New Member

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    This is a clip from a rather downbeat memo sent round the railway this week and written by the chairman/general manager/commercial manager (all the same person)

    We still have some outstanding issues with the Patriot and we are still working on D49 Morayshire, D49 is a much bigger project than was anticipated or quoted for and will probably take some time to complete and mean we will be working and not able to bill the customer for the hours worked for some time to come.
     
  18. Glenmutchkin

    Glenmutchkin New Member

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    Thanks for the update.
     
  19. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    I'm hearing that the 38 has been sold to Paignton? If so how much will go to the railway to help clear the debts?
     
  20. 6A Resident

    6A Resident New Member

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    In light of lack confirmation of above post or any news on the internet, two observations
    A look at the loco roster for September on the Llangollen Railway website reveals no mention of 3802
    Travelling home from Wrexham to Chester around early August I passed two Alleyles heavy haulage articulated vehicles travelling in the direction of Wrexham along the A483
    Both vehicles had a standard gauge track panel on each trailer
    They could have been going anywhere, or picking up any rail vehicle
    However in view of previous posts I would take a punt that they were traveling to collect a GWR 2-8-0 plus its tender
    I hope I am proved wrong
     

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