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Llangollen Railway

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by 14xx Lover, Jan 4, 2010.

  1. simon

    simon Part of the furniture

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    They seem to think they are selling the right to operate the railway, yes. Unless it is just badly worded and they think they are selling the assets and rights to operate the engineering business
     
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  2. tor-cyan

    tor-cyan Well-Known Member

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    If somebody was to buy the plc outright would the LRO transfer with the assets?

    cheers
    Colin
     
  3. RichardBrum

    RichardBrum Member

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    They are attempting to sell the actual business, so you would be buying the plc.
    A purchaser would get everything owned by the plc, including any rights & licenses, but they would also be taking on the liabilities.
     
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  4. RichardBrum

    RichardBrum Member

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    Those donated assets may well have strings attached that either prevent their sale, or control who they could be sold to.
     
  5. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    I think there is a bit of confusion here.

    If I'm reading it right, the 6 days is for the sale of the PLC as a whole. After that they, I'm guessing, will look at selling it off individually to whoever bids the highest amount.

    Meanwhile the Trust are looking at all options to generate money to be able to buy back the core items it needs from the plcs assets to run the railway.

    On top of this, there will be a lot of privately owned stock as well.

    Is there a publicly available list of what the PLC actually owns?
     
  6. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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  7. Ruston906

    Ruston906 New Member

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    I was trying say that coach are something are more important to keep than a loco which does not run and will need a large amount of money spent on it as long as you have stock you can hire in or not a loco to fit your budget.
     
  8. gwilialan

    gwilialan Part of the furniture

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    If you look back a page or two I think you'll find an announcement from the trust which confirms that it is the trust and not the Plc which holds the LRO so there is no change there.

    Happy to be corrected if wrong but in general I think that if a company "X" held a LRO and went bust but was bought up as a going concern would keep the LRO. If it was replaced by any new company rising from the ashes eg. "New Co X 2021" then that would need a new application for - is it a TWO now in place of the LRO?
     
  9. simon

    simon Part of the furniture

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    Which would mean, surely, they would get no bids as the liabilities well exceed the value of the asssets?
     
  10. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Its far easier to hire in a loco, than to try to find coaches that are ready to run , for starters every line needs its running coaches for its own use first, very few will have a rake, fit for service standing idle, you might be able to get some out of traffic, needing overhaul, but i would be very surprised if anyone has any spare coaches, of the coaches the trust owns, are any in rumming order? and are they the right type to be able to operate a service with.
     
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  11. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I suspect that the receivers have no experience of selling an organisation like the Llangollen plc which is not practically stand-alone and is inextricably intertwined with the Trust. The only people/organisation that could sensibly take on the plc as a whole would be the Trust and I can't see that happening unless they've found a fairy godmother.
    Out of interest, who owns the buildings that the engineering business used?
     
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  12. huochemi

    huochemi Well-Known Member Friend

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    Apart from the reason set out by @simon, the receiver/administrator does not control the shares so cannot sell the PLC. I think the advert is poorly worded, perhaps deliberately so, and it may have been cloned from another, as in some cases, the "business" i.e. a collection of rights and assets, may be viable. but the last thing a buyer would want is responsibility for the liabilities of and claims against the PLC.
     
  13. Vulcan Works

    Vulcan Works Member

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    Indeed, the Plc is a curious entity to try to sell off, either in whole or part.

    I wonder if other heritage railways will actually take part in the bidding process or instead will they stand aside to allow the Trust to have the first and best chance? The actions of individual purchasers are difficult to control but I think there is a degree of camaraderie in the heritage sector and many heritage lines and supporters will feel decidedly uncomfortable bidding and removing assets that could make life difficult for a new Llangollen operator.
     
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  14. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    That's a good point which I've given thought to. On the one hand, there's the opportunity to acquire bits of specialised kit which otherwise might be difficult to acquire but on the other hand, do I/we want to bid against the Trust and deprive them of a chance to succeed in continued operations. I'm inclined to the latter approach but it would only work if the heritage railway movement stood firm on this.
     
  15. black5

    black5 Well-Known Member

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    If you are buying the whole company, would you be taking on the libalities? Where is the money you are paying for the business going if not paying off the previous creditors, just into the administrators pockets? (Genuine question into process of adminstration/liquidation).
     
  16. 40F

    40F New Member

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    The other side to this viewpoint is that if the assets are not sold at the best price obtainable in a competitive market then the sums available to meet the liabilities, including it seems the claims from loco owning entities who contracted for engineering work, may be insufficient to make full restitution. A difficult situation for all involved.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
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  17. simon

    simon Part of the furniture

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    The money will go to pay the administrator and the creditors, who may only get a small percentage of what they are owned. If you buy the company you would indeed take the liabilities but as pointed out above, it's not likely that it is the shares in the plc which will be changing hands.
     
  18. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    And the cash raised from selling them might be used to retain some more important PLC assets.

    Very sad situation. Hopefully nothing will get scrapped, just moved to other lines.

    Noel
     
  19. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    That'll just mean that a line with less concern for that aspect could get a lower price on stuff it does buy.

    Noel
     
  20. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    the biggest concern has to be, that none of the coaches etc get sold, and a scrap merchant makes an offer, that is accepted , because its the only offer. and then cuts up the stock
     
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