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LMS Hughes Crab 42859

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by SpudUk, Mar 31, 2009.

  1. steam_mad

    steam_mad Member

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    Steam railway states that the wheelsets and tender frames taken to a scrap dealer who was going to ship them out to India for melting down. If so, there must still be a chance of rescue?
     
  2. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    I wouldn't build your hopes up. You wouldn't ship wheel sets whole, too bulky. They'd be chopped up and tossed in a container along with other similar scrap.
     
  3. martin butler

    martin butler Part of the furniture

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    original Post removed , as this is a very "sticky" subject

    ,However, what size are the axle boxes on an 8f and the drivers, could possible replacements be sourced from Turkey when they scrap the 8f? If the will is there, then almost anything can be rebuilt, especially if the original is only fit for patterns anyway, things like the platework will have to be renewed anyway, it might end up cheeper to build a new tender than patch the old one, the boiler would need extensive repairs, but whats new, dont 99% end up with more new platework than old these days? its going to need a fully equiped workshop and work force to do it, so it would i would hope go to an established preservation centre lets hope that given the footage in the railway press that preasure would have been put on the site owner and scrap merchant to come to an agreement that would enable the loco to be recovered and purchased to someone or a group that have the capicity to restore it
     
  4. patrickalanbooth

    patrickalanbooth New Member

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    I sincerely hope that this loco survives and i think that steam railway may have saved the day by telling Phil Wainwright and us enthusiasts about it and from what i have read it seems to be very dangerous between Mr Arknell and the Binbrook people and i think on hearing the trouble the scapyard has hopefully put the associated parts to one side to avoid getting caught up in the debarkell as its a case of giving them back than providing compensation for new ones. Even if just the wheels, cyclenders and boiler survive those are the most expansive single parts and provided theres people and money the impossible is possible. sp lets hope that santa brings us a nice Christmas present :)
    thanks
    Patrick
     
  5. ragl

    ragl Well-Known Member

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    What part of the engine is "the debarkell" ?? Sounds like a bit of a fiasco.

    Cheers

    Alan
     
  6. 46118

    46118 Part of the furniture

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    Parts recovery to help other engines is one issue, but do please bear in mind there are plenty of other engines on our Heritage railways awaiting funds for their restoration that might actually be better causes on which to spend money given the state of 42859.
    Having said that, if someone with deep, very deep, pockets wishes to take on 42859, then it is a free country and they can no doubt spend their money as they so wish.
     
  7. stan the man

    stan the man Member

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    Lets hope the remains of this loco are saved, its so sad to hear of their possible scrapping and even more upsetting for some enthusiasts to seem to just accept it and indeed support it.

    Stan
     
  8. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    They can't do much about it, can they? It is privately owned and the owner hasn't asked for help afaik. In terms of restoring it. it would be a very useful preserved line engine, a more so than a West Country pacific or 9F and rarer.
     
  9. 8-10 Brass Cleaner

    8-10 Brass Cleaner Member

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    Hmm

    Hope you will not mind me correcting your post a little.

    The crane engine that has been built used a number of components of the original, notably the crankshaft and crane bevel gears. Amongst the other parts were a corroded smokebox with perch bracket and axle fork.

    The Mann wagon mentioned was constructed from an extant and original boiler with front axle and wheels that survived in use for soil sterilization in a Manchester nursery. Its identity was known. It was rebuilt using an appropriate and contemporary cylinder, crankshaft and motion rescued from a river in Canada (likely off a very similar wagon). The cylinder later prove to be cracked and was replaced with new. The remainder of the wagon was mostly built new, or using appropriate second hand components. The chassis as you have happened to mention it is completely new.
     
  10. THE MELTER

    THE MELTER Member

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    The big difference here is that the people in road steam decide what to do and get on with it,They do not consider outside views or opinions they do it for it's own sake right or wrong, in the railway world anyone that does this is berated and criticised ( Mr Smith for example) because everyone wants to put an opinion. The road steam guys put their money where there mouths are, suck it up, pay for it themselves and do it. No new build apeals, projects or other blue sky schemes based on the notion that if they have the right idea and get the right publicity they can get someone else to pay for them to play engines.

    The only new build / recreation project in the railway arena worth any consideration ( in my opinion) is the unknown warrior.

    As for the Crab, i wish the guy well.

    The Melter
     
  11. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    How many £1m+ road steam projects are there out there, and how much does it cost to keep one on the road every year ?
     
  12. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    And in what way is this project superior and more worthy of consideration than, say, Tornado, the Broad Gauge FireFly, the Brighton Atlantic, the GW Saint, 82045, the Beamish Steam Elephant, the MOSI Planet replica or any of the others? (And no offence meant by me to the Unknown Warrior project).

    Tom
     
  13. THE MELTER

    THE MELTER Member

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    There are None.
    There were far less £1m railway projects when they were spending their own money too.
    The rise in costs to a "Standard" £1m+ or £500k for a 10 year overhaul is in my opinion because they are often spending someone elses money (Lottery) this raises the cost for the movement as a whole.
    As for running costs, you do have a valid point but, the earning potential is not there either in the case of road steam.
    either way running a steam engine hits your pocket, road or Rail. I just think there is a difference in mentality between the two groups.

    The Melter
     
  14. martin butler

    martin butler Part of the furniture

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    Getting back to the loco in question, is there any up to date news on this engine, whilst i along with 99%of people on here would be very relieved to hear that its been moved and is now safe, i don't hold out much hope, mostly because if the article reflects the situation then an injunction may not save the engine, after all some scrap dealers have been known to ignore the law in the past when they have taken in items that they know are stolen, our JCB fore instance was stolen and ended up hidden under pile of scrap along with railway materials , why hide it, unless you know it was stolen goods , i am not of course accusing the scrap dealer in this case of knowingly handling the loco parts and hope that they hold fire on further cutting to enable the situation to be sorted out
     
  15. thegrimeater

    thegrimeater Member

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    The railmotor hasn't done too bad either. Network Rail let it run up and down a branchline for 2 days so it must be of reasonably sound construction!
     
  16. THE MELTER

    THE MELTER Member

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    It is not superior in any factual or historic way whatsoever,
    as i said, it is my opinion ( i am allowed) and The Unknown Warrior is the only mainline project i have ever donated to.
    Why? because in my allowed opinion it is the only one worth my support.

    The Melter
     
  17. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    so if I understand you correctly, there's loads of millionaires out there to pay for steam locomotives, but they prefer to group together and volunteer for a decade and raise money for parts by asking the public rather than spending their own cash ?
    And that locomotive overhauls such as 42859 cost the same as a road engine, even though it could need a tender, boiler, motion etc and that all are at least double in size, and in order to get on the "road" need 000's of Network Rail required electronics installing ?
    But all of the above aside because of the lottery prices are higher ?

    How come it costs towards $2m to overhaul a steam locomotive in the US, or upto 2mn euros for an 01 pacific in Germany ?, they dont have UK lottery funding ?
     
  18. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Apart from the fact that it does have a history ....
     
  19. mark t

    mark t New Member

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    i have been reading about the crab and it would be nice to see her run again even better to see it going on the main line because 42765 is not main line reged and i dont think it will ever go main line it is a shame I have read about 42859 in steam railway how can people just take things from other people it is a shame and i do feel sorry for the owner of the crab .
    Also it mentions about the owner beeing bullied how can that be civil it is so sad to hear about this
     
  20. 84A

    84A New Member

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    Completely discounting 82045 then? If anything, (with respect) The Unknown Warrior should be completed in rebuilt form, since these engines were considered to be one of the most advanced on BR - which probably explains why they were all run into the ground.
     

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