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LMS Hughes Crab 42859

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by SpudUk, Mar 31, 2009.

  1. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    On the whole it is more likely that an individual would see merely ownership as fulfilment of itself than a group I should think? Forming a group probably implies greater objectives even if the initial one is simply to save something from scrap.
    Anyhow this has drifted well wide of the original hypothesis to deal with idle railway owned locos and even further from the eponymous thread title.
     
  2. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Part of the furniture

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    I suppose so, I've never understood the "I'll get around to it one day" sentiment as expressed in that photo above, but it clearly exists, so there we go.

    Quite, although it seems as difficult as ever to pin down what's actually happened to this loco.
     
  3. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    A loco as an investment? Now there's a novel concept. :)
    They're generally regarded as money pits so I wonder how much the real return is on a loco once you factor in all the overhaul costs - especially if it's been done as a contract job.
     
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  4. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Part of the furniture

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    I presume they're only investments if you don't actually spend any money overhauling them, just stopping them getting (much) worse. As we know, the only way of making small fortune from steam loco ownership is to start with a big fortune.
     
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  5. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    The notion of it being an investment is on the basis of simply owning the loco without any further spending much as someone might buy land or property as an appreciating asset. Obviously some storage and conservation costs may apply but even the unrestored Barry engines that have changed hands in recent years have increased in value when sold.
    As to other potential returns we would need to hear from the likes of Pete Best if some positive financial outcome is possible.
     
  6. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Part of the furniture

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    Some might settle for avoiding bankruptcy............................
     
  7. 43729

    43729 New Member

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    I don't know how I can prove something no longer exists.... However I can say I drove many miles and spent many hours on the phone hunting it down after it was moved to a secret location and I can find no trace of it.

    On the plus side the chairman of the east lancs railway has found a spare lyr loco according to his Twitter feed.

    https://twitter.com/elrchairman/status/970295922675671041?s=19
     
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  8. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    Religious people have been using that excuse as the proof that there is a magical fairy in the sky so im afraid you have no hope!
     
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  9. Miff

    Miff Well-Known Member

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    And yet it is also said many unrestored engines have been on the market, unsold, for a long time because no-one wants to pay the asking prices. In which case the investment gain is illusory and it is only a matter of time before these prices fall.
     
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  10. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    .... or get trumped by a better offer from the scrap men. As has been pointed out, at some stage storage costs alone will become unrecoverable on sale of an item.

    This melancholy scenario becomes more immediate a problem at the point where an owning enthusiast falls of his/her perch, leaving beneficiaries who have zero interest in the obsession of their departed one and see only a financial liability. :(
     
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  11. Bill Drewett

    Bill Drewett Member

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    I'm not sure you've got that quite right. 43729 has demonstrated how difficult it is to prove something doesn't exist. ;)
     
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  12. 240P15

    240P15 Active Member

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    Yes, reading this thread can get anybody walking sideways....
     
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  13. Miff

    Miff Well-Known Member

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    I think it’s a good thing if prices fall for that reason. Railways, loco groups or individuals with the ambition to take on a long-term restoration project may be deterred, currently, by unrealistic purchase prices.
     
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  14. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    Cant help thinking that purchase price is the least of their problems.
     
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  15. DismalChips

    DismalChips Member

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    True, but it would be a few grand more that could be spent on the actual bits and pieces.
     
  16. Miff

    Miff Well-Known Member

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    Since few, if any, Barry restorations are fully funded at the outset the purchase price may not be the biggest hurdle but it is the first significant one and kills the project at birth if it’s too high.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
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  17. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    When looking at a pile of rust, with no real handle on how much is going to need replacement, let alone any possible steaming date, I don't think hefty transport costs help much either.
     
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  18. LesterBrown

    LesterBrown Active Member

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    I rather fear you are right and that what remains all fits in the owner's spare bedroom.
     
  19. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Part of the furniture

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    Quite - buying a few wagons is quite an attractive proposition to me until transport costs start getting involved!
     
  20. Maunsell man

    Maunsell man Well-Known Member

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    Don't get me wrong as I don't know what has happened to the Crab but there was a photo in the railway press of its frames with foundation ring sitting on top away from Binbrook. Jim Arkell also was there and stated clearly he had scrapped the boiler and retained only the foundation ring and a few other oddments as the rest was scrap. I seem to remember that contemporary reports of its condition when it was yanked out of Barry and went to Hull Dairycoates was that it was absolutely knackered, particularly the boiler and firebox. Reading about the condition of the NRM example I can imagine they were all pretty much life expired when they were withdrawn.

    It is tragic what has been allowed to happen to this engine but the whole story from all contributors does not ring quite true if you have followed it over the years. The owner had or has the frames after Binbrook. What he has done with them is only known to him. He may well of disposed of them or they could be sitting somewhere out the way along with the other components that have been rounded up, dunno.

    Just because you can't find it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Probably means whoever has it doesn't want you to find it. Just I may add like Esmond Lewis Evans and the 01 which had a disposal order on it or the 4DD driving trailer. Both 'lost' for a long time until the frames and wheels turned up at Hope Farm and the boiler somewhere else. All presumed long scrapped as nobody could find them!
     

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