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LMS Patriot Project Updates

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Gav106, Apr 10, 2011.

  1. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    Kevin West has been creating the missing drawings as and when along with building the engine in 3D CAD. Im presuming that Kev updates these as he goes along, hes down at Llangollen working on the engine getting it ready for Barrow Hill at the moment so will answer when he goes online/gets a break.... ok that could be a while as we do keep him rather busy!! Lol. BUT to keep him busy we do need one big thing.... yes you guessed it. MONEY! If there is anyone reading this who likes what you seen and could spare any money at all please visit our website and make a donation at www.lms-patriot.org.uk and support our "Fiver for the foundation ring" appeal! Fiver Foundation Ring.jpg Thankyou to anyone who can assist. And if you cant how about mentioning it to any of your railway friends!

    Cheers Gav
     
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  2. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    Hi Gav,
    what factors determined where and when you've opted to used fitted bolts instead of Riveting please...
     
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  3. BanburyKev

    BanburyKev Member

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    A couple of answers following the previous questions:-

    Fitted Bolts
    We are using fitted bolts on items that may need to be removed for maintenance sometime in the future. One example are the Axlebox Horn Guides. Traditionally these would have been riveted to the frames. If the Horns ever needed to be removed to correct damage/wear the rivets have to be machined out with possible additional damage to the Horn and Frame plate holes. With fitted bolts used it is possible to drive the bolt out. On refitting after the work has been completed the holes will be reamed slightly bigger and a new bolt fitted. Cylinders traditionally used fitted bolts. We are not intending to remove any Horn Guides in the near future, but if we do ever need to it will be a lot simpler Hope that answers that one?

    Drawings and CAD
    This is a lot more complicated. Firstly, only a relatively small number of original component drawings have survived for the Patriot class. Luckily most of the major component drawings have, although some of these are small copies that are not very clear. Some that have survived include the cylinders and Driving wheels. As a lot of parts are common with the Royal Scot class have been lucky that the first batch of Royal Scot class were built by the North British Locomotive Company in Glasgow. The NBL drawing archive is now held by Glasgow University who have supplied copy drawings to the project.

    We are better off with the Arrangement Drawings, more commonly now called General Assemblies. Some of the Arrangement drawings we have include, Frame Arrangement, Inside & Outside Motion Arrangement, Lubrication Arrangement, Pipe & Rod and Smokebox Arrangement drawings. These are large sheets with lots of pictorial detail but very few dimensions. The individual parts are identified by their component number, but these drawings are mostly missing.

    The Frame Arrangement drawing shows all the detail of the Main Frame plates, Buffer Beams and Platforms and basic detail for the Frame Stretchers, Horn Guides and Motion Brackets. This drawing was created for the first 2 Patriot's, the locomotives re-built from Claughtons Nos 5791 and 5902 which were different to the production locomotives. They had different wheelbases as they used the rear of the Claughton frames and coupling rods and driving wheels. There is a Modified Frame Arrangement drawing which shows 'some' of the modifications subsequently made. So to find out a detail of the frames you first have to look at the Frame Arrangement drawing to find the appropriate sizes, then you have to look at the Modified Frame Arrangement drawing to check the sizes have not been changed!

    The Frame Arrangement drawing contains details of about 120 individual components, but passing the complete drawing to a manufacturer today would bring the answer 'what do I do with this?' Therefore we have to create a completely new drawing for every part. Drawing is a general term now as well. As we are using new manufacturing techniques in the construction of (4)5551. Depending on the manufacturer, part and processes, we may provide a complete dimensioned drawing similar to traditional hand drawn drawings of the past, or just an outline drawing which shows the various views of the part with the major dimensions for checking purposes and notes to say that the part must be produced from the supplied CAD data.

    The whole locomotive is being drawn in 3D CAD, every part is modelled and then added into a large assembly in its position on the locomotive. This enables checks to be made to ensure we do not have fouls and everything fits together correctly. Well thats the plan! The drawings are generated from the 3D part model. If a modification to a part is made the drawing will automatically update.

    The CAD system I use has a feature where a single CAD model can have a number of configurations. This is very useful for Castings. The part is modelled as the casting which includes all the extra material that is removed during machining. A second configuration is then created where the machining operations are applied to the casting model to simulate the removal of the unwanted metal.

    So every part we have made so far has required a new drawing and this will continue for the rest of the locomotive.
     
  4. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    Very interesting - thanks for the replies gents


    Keith
     
  5. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    Ever wondered what a half built 45551 looks like on a turntable.....
    12047111_10153632120743684_4457580303449361065_n.jpg
    Pic via Kevin West.

    Gav.
     
  6. andalfi1

    andalfi1 Member

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    Nice, see you at the weekend...
     
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  7. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    Im there from Thursday till Sunday. How about yourself?

    Gav
     
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  8. andalfi1

    andalfi1 Member

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    Saturday only, or face the wife's wrath ....
     
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  9. BanburyKev

    BanburyKev Member

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    I have finally found time to up-date the project website with latest progress.
    Kevin West
    Chief Engineer
    LMS Patriot Project

    Engineering Up-date - October 2015
    Locomotive Frame Assembly

    Work continues on a number of fronts on the construction of The Unknown Warrior.

    [​IMG]

    The Unknown Warrior takes a rest at Donnington Services during its movement from Barrow Hill to Tyseley, 29th September. Photo – Kevin West

    The major work of permanent fitting the cylinders and Motion Brackets to the locomotive has been completed.

    All the Cylinder and Valve Cover were fitted temporarily along with the Outside Slide Bars, ready for the locomotives trip to Barrow Hill in mid September.

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    Left Hand Cylinder with Cover fitted and Slide Bars being worked on. Photo – Kevin West

    The Motion Girders have also been temporarily bolted into position. They will be removed for some final machining of oilways once the locomotive returns from Tyseley. The high tensile bolts have been purchased to permently fit the Girders as well. The platform above the Girders also requires to be riveted into place before the Girders are permently mounted. This work is scheduled to be completed soon after the locomotive returns from Tyseley.

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    Llangollen Railway apprentices Ben & Joe working on re-fitting the platforms. – Photo:- Kevin West

    Other work required before the move to Barrow Hill included re-fitting all the Platform plates removed during the Cylinder and Motion Bracket/Girder work and re-fitting the Smokebox and Smoke Deflectors. Project Chief Engineer Kevin West spent 10 days at Llangollen prior to the planned movement date helping with the locomotive re-assembly. Working with large heavy pieces of locomotive instead of pressing buttons on the computer was a nice change.

    The final major work required was to lift the chassis back onto the Driving Wheels. This was done using the Llangollen railway 50 ton rail crane to lift the front of the frames and a hired in 30 ton road crane at the back end. The precision and skill of the crane drivers ensured the job was done in less than an hour.

    The previous time the chassis had been moved on it Driving Wheels there had not been the Cylinders fitted. This now means there is an additional 7 tons weight at the front of the Frames. Without the Bogie in place underneath this need supporting. Our first thoughts were to strap a 4 wheel works trolley under the front end, but in the end we decided to use one of the former Road/Railer wheel and axle units that Llangollen works us to move un-wheeled chassis around the works. Chris Collins and Arwell Jarvis made up an adaptor that bolted to the Bogie Bolster mountings and the unit was packed to give the correct height.

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    The Road/Railer axle and wheels fitted to support the Unknown Warrioer’s front end.. – Photo:- Kevin West

    Once the locomotive had been wheeled it had the impression of a strange2-6-0Patriot with very small leading wheels. During shunting the locomotive for loading it ran surprisingly well, rewarding the effort in making the unit.

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    Llangollen Railway CME Dave Owen supervising lifting the locomotive back onto its Driving Wheels.. – Photo:- Kevin West

    The locomotive was due to move to Barrow Hill on Friday 18th September, but after problems with the road transporter the locomotive was loaded on Monday 21st and delivered to Barrow Hill at lunchtime on Tuesday 22nd.

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    The Unknown Warrior is shunted onto the turntable after arrival at Barrow Hill.. – Photo:- Kevin West

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    The Unknown Warrior on display at Barrow Hill with Ivatt class 4 2-6-0 43106 on the turntable..

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    The project sales team in action at Barrow Hill. From left, Neil Kinsey, Karen Kinsey, Mike Dunn, Gavin Shell, Neil Collinson and John Hastings-Thompson. – Photo:- Kevin West

    After the Barrow Hill 65 Gala over the weekend on 25th – 27th September the locomotive was once again traveling on the M1 and M42 on it’s way to Tyseley Locomotive Works for fitment of the Bogie and Cylinder & Valve Liners.

    Work is also progressing on the drawings for the Drain Cock operation gear andLubricator Drivesystems. The Drain Cock Gear alone totals 168 individual components.

    The four leading Sandboxes were delivered to Llangollen on 10th September and have now been painted ready for fitting to the chassis.

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    The Sandboxes painted ready to fit to the chassis.. – Photo:- Kevin West

    We have taken delivery of copies of the 100 drawings found in the archives of theNationalRailwayMuseum,Yorkand the 55 drawings found in the North British Locomotive Co drawing archives, held atGlasgowUniversityfrom the 50 Royal Scot class locomotives built byNBL. These drawings are either original Patriot drawings or from related locomotives that can be used for the build of The Unknown Warrior.

    Brake System and Lubrication System
    Refurbishment of the Locomotive & Tender Brake Cylinders from 8F 48518 continues at Harco Engineering.

    Design work continues for the lubrication system. The mechanical Lubricator under overhaul at the Great Central Railway, Loughborough is progressing well. The replacement body casting is being sourced with the pattern taken for refurbishment. We have also been made aware of an existing body and lid. This is being check to see if it is suitable.

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    CAD image of lubrication pipe runs – Photo:- Kevin West

    Design work for the lubrication pipework runs, fittings and clips continues.

    Quotations to machine the Brake Hangers have been obtained and the castings will be moved to Llangollen Engineering in the next week.

    We now have the drawings for the Royal Scot class to compare with the details taken from Jubilee Bahamas. Once this is complete the data can be sent out for quotation to get the parts manufactured.

    Pistons, Valves and Motion
    The Slide Bar Bolts have been completed and delivered to Llangollen.

    Detail discussions have continued with Tyseley Locomotive Works with regard to the fitting of the Valve & Cylinder Liners. The castings have been delivered ready for machining. Detail drawings have been completed and passed on to the machining company.

    Castings for the Pistons have been ordered and will be delivered to Tyseley once cast.

    An order for Tyseley to supply completed Piston and Valve assemblies has been raised. These include finished Pistons, Piston Rings and Piston Rods and Valve Heads, Rings and Rods.

    Drawings for the Gland and Stuffing Box parts for the Piston Rods and Valve Rods are in progress to enable manufacture.

    The Slide Bar Bolts have been completed and delivered to Llangollen.

    Llangollen Railway Engineering are also progressing the manufacture of the Coupling Rod Bushes and Brasses.

    Quotations for machining the recently cast Expansion Links are being obtained.

    The Unknown Warrior was on display at the Tyseley Works Open weekend at the end of October with work visable in preparation for the fitting of the Cylinder & Valve Liners. The locomotive was decorated with poppies and also the nameplates from Private W Wood VC & Private E Sykes VC.

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    The Unknown Warrior on display at the Tyseley Open Day 25th October. The Cylinder Covers have been removed in preparation for fitting the liners. Photo – Kevin West

    Bogie
    The new Bogie Wheelset had its tyres fitted at South Devon Railway Engineering in mid September and was delivered to Tyseley. The trye back to backs have been machined and the final work required is profiling of the treads on both the new wheelset and the wheelset from 48518. This will be done at the London Midland depot next door to Tyseley Locomotive Works.

    Assembly of the bogie continues apace at Tyseley Locomotives Works. The bronze bearer pads and the centre bearing were causing issues from Tyseley usual supplier, so we contacted our casting supplier, sent the drawings and cad data, had patterns made and castings supplied to Tyseley within 10 days. These have now been machined and the centre bearing has been pressed into position. The Bearer Pads are ready for fitting.

    The Side Control Springs and Beams are due to be fitted this week.

    [​IMG]

    The Bogie Frame Assembly under assembly at Tyseley Locomotive Works. Photo – Kevin West

    Final machining of the Axleboxes for the new wheelset is complete and ready for whitemetaling.

    The Bogie is due for completion in mid November for fitting to the locomotive chassis.

    Boiler
    Work continues on the forming blocks for the outer firebox Steel Flanged plates at Tyseley Locomotive Works. The Doorplate block has been cast.

    An order for the Outer Wrapper sheets has been raised. Once delivered all the big pieces for the boiler will be to hand or in progress.

    At LNWR Crewe, the Inner Firebox Crown and side sheets have been prepared for welding prior to a start being made on assembling the Inner Firebox.

    The 2 barrel rings are ready to be riveted together when there is capacity in the works. The Foundation Ring components are ready to be sent away for machining before welding in the side sections.

    LNWR Heritage have agreed the completed will be ready for delivery in December 2016.

    Tender
    Work on the refurbishment on the Tender Frames continues at Rowlescourt Engineering.

    Final welding of the new front sections of the outer frames is due to be completed in the next couple of weeks. The new welded dragboxes for both front and back have been assembled and wait machining before they are installed in the frame assembly. This machining has been waiting a slot in Rowlescourt’s machine shop around the companies commercial work programme. As the machine shop has been fully occupied recently we are now looking to send these parts out for machining.

    Rowlescourt have committed to complete the chassis repair by the end of the year, if not before. The chassis will be returned to Llangollen as soon as possible to allow the Drag Boxes and outer flanges to be riveted in place.

    Design work on the new tank which will be of welded construction with dummy rivets is continuing taking into consideration the requirements for new main line running regulations.

    The repair of two of the Tender Axleboxes damaged at Barry scrapyard has been completed and they are now back at Llangollen.

    During their time in, the tenders were subjected to removal of the bronze bearings. This was sometimes achieved by smashing off the outer Axlebox Cover with a sledge hammer, rather than unbolting it. Two of the axleboxes we have were subjected to this and sustained damage in the process. One had just lost the ears that the fixing bolt was fitted to, but the other had lost a complete section from the base. These castings have now been restored by specialist Cast Iron welding by Shilton Cast Iron & Welding, of Hinkley.

    [​IMG]

    Bogie Axleboxs at Llangollen. Photo – Kevin West

    The Tender Wheelsets are at Llangollen. The welding repairs have been completed to fill the voids in the castings. Painting of the wheelsets is now underway. The journals andTyreprofiles were restored at Tyseley Locomotive works in 2012.

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    Tender Wheelsets being welded at Llangollen. Photo – Kevin West

    Future work planning
    Following fitting of the Cylinder & Valve Liners and the Bogie assembly at Tyseley Locomotive Works, the locomotive will return to Llangollen. This is now expected to take place towards the end of November.



    Once back at Llangollen work will continue on setting up the Inner Slidebars.



    A start will also be made on the lubrication pipework.
     
  10. andalfi1

    andalfi1 Member

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    Yet another comprehensive report which we have come to expect from our engineering supremo ! Many thanks to you and the other volunteers for keeping this superb project bang on schedule.
    Andy
     
  11. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    Like several of the new builds which have reached a critical mass and are surging towards the finishing fine, fantastic work ladies and gentlemen all round. How exciting to think we'll have a Patriot, Brighton Atlantic, Standard 3MT, a Saint, a Gresley P2 and a few others in steam before the end of the next decade and probably by some way.
     
  12. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    We havent updated this thread for a while but here is a great pic from deepdale engineering today! Photo from Oakwood visuals. Its the outer steel crown and sides. FB_IMG_1452090037505.jpg

    So to continue the point about building brand new, well it can be done!
     
  13. Smokestack Lightning

    Smokestack Lightning New Member

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    Great progress. When is the boiler due to be completed?

    Dave
     
  14. andalfi1

    andalfi1 Member

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    As far as 'I' am aware, the end of THIS year, so all contributions toward it, would gratefully received...
     
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  15. keith6233

    keith6233 New Member

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    As the wrapper is being made in 3 pieces and formed cold and welded ,will it be stress relieved before assembly?.
     
  16. ragl

    ragl Member

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    Good question. Would be interested in knowing the welding procedure myself, I would imagine pre-heating and possibly a post-heat soak.

    Cheers,

    Alan
     
  17. BanburyKev

    BanburyKev Member

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    The latest up-date has been posted on the project website.

    Engineering update - December 2015

    Submitted by Kevin West on 19 January, 2016 - 08:41
    Locomotive Frame Assembly
    Work continues on the construction of The Unknown Warrior at number of locations. The construction of a steam locomotive of any size is a complicated engineering task and the past few weeks have proved to be just that. While it may appear that not a lot is happening above the surface, in fact the 8 legged duck is paddling furiously although perhaps not all in the same direction!

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    The Unknown Warrior on display at Tyseley Locomotive Works, 24th October. Photo – Kevin West

    Following the locomotives arrival at Tyseley work has not progressed at the pace we had expected due to a number of reasons. The major reason has been the discovery that the Cylinder & Valve Liner castings all required replacement due to having voids and blow holes in the castings. This was not discovered until the castings had been part machined. Replacement castings have now been produced and proof machined by the foundry and are due to be moved for final machining this week. Once the machining has been completed they will be moved to Tyseley for shrink fitting into the Cylinders.

    In preparation for the liner machining detailed measurements of the cylinders were taken to establish the require diameters required to ensure the correct fit into the cylinder castings.
    The fitting involves the liner being immersed into a tank of liquid nitrogen which make the liner shrink slightly so they can be inserted into location in the Cylinder. As the liners warm up and expand to normal size they become a slight interference fit in the cylinder casting which holds them in position. A number of set screws provide a final location. The interference required on our cylinder liners of 19 3/16” outside diameter is only 3 thousands of an inch.


    [​IMG]
    Left Hand Cylinder with Covers and Slide Bars removed in preparation for the liners to be fitted. Photo – Kevin West


    The 155 drawings obtained from the National Railway Museum, York and Glasgow University have been catalogued and filed for easy access when required.
    Back at Llangollen parts continue to arrive for fitting when the locomotive returns. These include the Guard Irons.

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    Guards Irons at Llangollen. Photo – Jordan Leeds

    The Sandbox Necks have been machined at Harco and will be sent to Llangollen for fitting to the frame when it returns to Llangollen.

    Brake System and Lubrication System
    Refurbishment of the Locomotive & Tender Brake Cylinders from 8F 48518 continues at Harco Engineering.

    Design work continues for the lubrication system. A replacement body and new lid castings for the Mechanical Lubricator under overhaul at the Great Central Railway, Loughborough have been produced and delivered to Loughborough.

    [​IMG]
    Lubricator Body casting– Photo:- Kevin West

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    Lubricator Lid casting– Photo:- Premier Patterns

    Design work for the lubrication pipework runs, fittings and clips continues.

    The Brake Hangers have been moved to Llangollen Engineering for machining which is due to be completed this week. Drawings for the associated Pins, Nuts etc have been finished and quotation to manufacture have been sent out for quotations.

    Pistons, Valves and Motion
    As detailed at the beginning of this report the castings obtained for the cylinder and valve liners had to be rejected due to casting faults. New castings have now been produced using a modified casting method and a sample have been proof machined with encouraging results. We expect the castings to be delivered for final machining this week.
    Castings for the Pistons have been cast and will be delivered to Tyseley soon. An order for Tyseley to supply completed Piston and Valve assemblies has been raised. These include finished Pistons, Piston Rings and Piston Rods and Valve Heads, Rings and Rods.

    Drawings for the Gland and Stuffing Box parts for the Piston Rods and Valve Rods are in progress to enable manufacture.
    Llangollen Railway Engineering are also progressing the manufacture of the Coupling Rod Bushes and Brasses.
    Machining the cast Expansion Links is underway.

    [​IMG]
    One of the Expansion Links undergoing machining. Photo – CMS Cepcor Ltd

    The Inside Connecting Rod assembly has made a major step forward with the machining of the Big End Strap by CMS Cepcor in Coalville. To ensure the correct fit to the Inside Connection Rod, the Rod itself was moved to CMS in early mid December. It was set up on a large milling machine to measure the mating faces which were given a light skim to remove some slight pitting which had occurred since the rod had been removed from Jubilee 45697 Achilles in 1967.

    [​IMG]
    Big End Strap undergoing machining. Photo – Kevin West

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    Inside Connecting Rod undergoing machining. Photo – Kevin West

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    Big End Strap finished. Photo – Oakwood Visuals

    Drawings for the pins, nuts and other parts required for the Big End assembly have been finished and delivered to CMS Cepcor to manufacture.

    Castings for the Big End Bearings have also been procured. Quotations for machining to finish are being obtained.

    [​IMG]
    Big End Bearing casting. Photo – Premier Patterns

    A number of parts for the motion have also been acquired over the last few weeks. The inside valve gear Eccentric halves have been cast and delivered to Harco for machining. Also at Harco are the Reversing Shaft Trunnion castings and bearings. The Inside Crosshead has also been cast and now awaits machining. Also cast are the Outside Valve Crosshead Brackets.

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    Eccentric castings. Photo – Kevin West

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    A selection of castings at Premier Patterns Valve Crosshead Bracket, Sandbox Lids,Reverser Shaft Trunnions, Lubricator Body and Inside Crosshead. Photo – Kevin West

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    Crosshead casting. Photo – Kevin West

    The Cylinder Relief Valve Body castings have also been ordered. Once they are to hand they will be sent for machining. The castings for the valve spring holders are also on order. The valves will be ordered soon.

    Bogie
    The Bogie Wheelsets have finally had their tyres profiled fitted at the London Midland depot at Tyseley just before Christmas after a delay in finding time on the lathe. The local DMU fleet had experienced a number of wheel flats over the late autumn and obviously took precedent over our wheelsets.

    [​IMG]
    The Bogie Wheelset after tyre turning. Photo – Kevin West

    Assembly of the bogie is nearing completion at Tyseley Locomotives Works. The bogie frame is now complete with Side Control Springs and Beams in place. Some remedial machining was required on the Bogie Centre Pin casting and the fitted bolts to fit this and the Bolster Plates to the locomotive chassis are on order.

    [​IMG]
    The Bogie Frame under assembly at Tyseley. Photo – David Bradshaw

    The Axleboxes for the new wheelset have been white-metaled and machined ready for fitting.

    Boiler
    Preparation work continues at Tyseley Locomotive Works for the forming of the Outer Firebox Steel Flanged plates.
    The Outer Firebox Wrapper sheets were formed at Deepdale Engineering in early January 2016. The three sheets were then prepared for welding before delivery to LNWR Heritage, Crewe.

    [​IMG]
    Outer Firebox Wrapper sheets during forming at Deepdale Engineering. Photo – Oakwood Visuals

    The welding was completed on 14th January.

    [​IMG]
    Outer Firebox Wrapper sheets after welding at Deepdale Engineering. Photo – Bob Sweet

    At LNWR Crewe, the Inner Firebox Crown and side sheets are expected to be welded in the next couple of weeks. The assembly of the Inner Firebox is due to start at the beginning of February.

    The 2 barrel rings are ready to be riveted together when there is capacity in the works. The Foundation Ring components are ready to be sent away for machining before welding in the side sections.

    LNWR Heritage have agreed the completed boiler will be ready for delivery in December 2016.

    Tender
    Work on the refurbishment on the Tender Frames continues at Rowlescourt Engineering.

    Final machining of the new welded dragboxes for both front and back has been completed and they are installed in the frame assembly.

    Rowlescourt had intended to complete the chassis repair by the end of the year, to allow the chassis to be returned to Llangollen for the Drag Boxes and outer flanges to be riveted in place. Due to an influx of commercial work in late November and December we now expect the Tender Frame to return to Llangollen around the end of January

    Design work on the new tank which will be of welded construction with dummy rivets is continuing taking into consideration the requirements for new main line running regulations.

    Future work planning
    Following fitting of the Cylinder & Valve Liners and the Bogie assembly at Tyseley Locomotive Works, the locomotive will return to Llangollen. This is now expected to take place in February.

    Once back at Llangollen work will continue on setting up the Inner Slidebars.

    A start will also be made on the lubrication pipework.
     
  18. Smokestack Lightning

    Smokestack Lightning New Member

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    Fantastic progress. I really enjoy reading these updates. Thank you for posting.

    Dave
     
  19. andalfi1

    andalfi1 Member

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    That outer wrapper really does put the boiler size into perspective, its a BIG un !, another impressive update. Thanks.

    Andy
     
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  20. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Member

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    Is the Patriot being designed with ERTMS in mind?
     

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