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LMS Patriot Project Updates

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Gav106, Apr 10, 2011.

  1. sir gilbert claughton

    sir gilbert claughton Active Member

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    re the poppy
    Valour used to carry a poppy (a big one) on the smokebox on 11/11 . so there is a precedent
     
  2. Kylchap

    Kylchap Member

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    The Patriot Project folks strike me as a dedicated and competent group who are building a new member of a successful but extinct class that many of us remember. The remembrance aspect inspires me too, particularly since their aim was to complete it for the centenary of the end of the Great War. I've never detected any sense of slickness or that they were latching onto "remembrance" to make money. If anything, they seem a bit naive on the marketing front, as evidenced by their website.

    This project has received two huge blows in the last few months: first with Crewe declining to complete the boiler and now the distancing from the British Legion. They are well on the way to completing the engine. After a hundred years a few more will not matter very much. I hope we can all give them support and encouragement. Maybe chuck them a few quid too.
     
  3. sir gilbert claughton

    sir gilbert claughton Active Member

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    I have no special interest in this and I tend to think 11/11 has got way to big . please don't make too much of that , its just an observation . but....I imagine the BL has a copyright on a red poppy with a black centre .
    5551 I suspect would use a cast bronze or gunmetal representation which may well have no restriction on its use
     
  4. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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  5. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    Given that’s the second time in a few pages accusations have been thrown around without any prior research (you could have found info on that on the Patriots own web pages) could we all just take a step back, breathe, and think before pushing the “post reply” button, please?

    Amazed at how this thread, chronicling the build of a very important new steam locomotive, suddenly became a thread to undermine both this group and the A1 Trust. Rather insidious guys!
     
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  6. BanburyKev

    BanburyKev New Member

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    The November Engineering Up-date has been posted to our web site today.

    Engineering Up-date - November 2017
    Submitted by Kevin West on 14 November, 2017 - 11:16
    Locomotive Frame Assembly
    Work continues on the construction of The Unknown Warrior at number of locations.

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    The Unknown Warrior, Llangollen. 2nd October 2017. Photo – Kevin West

    Work is continuing on the installation of parts onto the locomotive chassis.

    Recent work has seen the final fitting of the four brackets and mountings for the Main Reverser Shaft, the two brackets for the Inside Expansion Link and the single bracket for the Intermediate Reverser Shaft.

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    The Mounting Brackets for the Inside Expansion Link in position. Photo – Kevin West

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    The Bracket for the Intermediate Reverser Shaft in position. Photo – Kevin West

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    The Inner Main Reverser Shaft Trunnion mounted to the inside of the right hand frame. Photo – Kevin West

    At Llangollen the Coupling Rods have been removed following trial fitting for Members Day in July and have had the felt oiler pads fitted.

    The Expansion Links and Bearings have been receiving attention in preparation to final fitting. All three expansion Links are now mounted in position ready for the rest of the motion.

    The Main Reversing Shaft castings have been moved from CMS Cepcor to Rewind & J Wilson, Liverpool for machining as CMS are unable to undertaken the work, partly due their own workload and also relating to the size of the castings and the capacity of the machines at CMS.

    The Cylinder Clothing sheets have been fitted following drilling and tapping on the fixing holes in the cylinder blocks. This was done using the sheets as patterns to ensure the holes were drilled in the correct positions. Both outside cylinders are finished with work almost complete on the Inside Cylinder. To enable this work to be undertaken, along with work associated with the Inside Cylinder Drain Cocks and Lubrication Pipework, the locomotive has been jacked up and the Bogie run out.

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    Picture – Left hand cylinder with clothing sheets and bands in place. Photos – Kevin West

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    A view of the Bogie Centre Pin, taken while the Bogie has been run out to allow fitting of the Inside Cylinder Clothing Sheets. Photo – Kevin West

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    An overhead view of the Bogie. October 2017. Photo – Kevin West

    With the Bogie run out from under the locomotive the fitting of lubrication fittings on the Bogie can be completed.

    For the comfort of the Driver and Fireman, their seat mountings have been designed and the Brackets and Frames ordered. The Seat Bases themselves are good traditional English Oak, which have been sourced and made by our member David Hughes.

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    One of the Cab Seat Bases made by David Hughes. Photo – Kevin West

    The volunteer painting gang have been busy working on the Cab. It has been rubbed back and prepared for the red undercoat, the first coats of which have now been applied. The Platform Valance have both been completed as well.

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    Cab following recent painting work. Photo – Kevin West

    Another small, but visually distinctive part has been completed recently. The Tail Rod Cover that can be seen on the platework below the Smokebox Door has been manufactured. We had obtained a quotation for this to be made commercially some time ago, but the price quoted was very high for what is basically a thin steel cover. At last year’s Midlands Model Engineering Exhibition, Pete Stevenson, a fellow member of the Coventry Model Engineering Society, was demonstrating metal spinning. I mentioned the Tail Pipe Cover to Pete and he offered to have a look at making one for us. At the year’s exhibition Pete presented the finished part to our sales stand.

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    The Tail Pipe Cover. Photo – Kevin West

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    The Tail Pipe Cover can be seen on this view of 45551 at Euston station.

    The volunteer painting gang have been busy working on the Cab. It has been rubbed back and prepared for the red undercoat, the first coats of which have now been applied. The Platform Valance have both been completed as well.

    Boiler
    Much work has been undertaken on the selection of a new contractor to complete the construction of the boiler for The Unknown Warrior.

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    The Inner Firebox completed, LNWR Heritage, Crewe. Photo – Jordan Leeds

    Following the writing of tender documents these were distributed to the interested parties and the results awaited. Once all the replies had been received we then undertook a process of evaluation of the replies and selection of 3 main suppliers. More details meetings were held with these contractors until a final decision was made. We are now in the final stages of compiling a contract. Once this has been signed a formal announcement will be made. The good news though is we expect the new contractor to start work on our boiler in early December.

    Back at LNWR Heritage, Crewe, the riveting of the Inner Firebox assembly is approaching completion this week, despite the initial promise to finish it by the end of June!

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    The Inner Firebox during riveting. The Foundation Ring has been fitted. Photo – Jordan Leeds

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    Andy Tranter making fine adjustment of the position of the Foundation Ring. Photo – Jordan Leeds

    The Throatplate had been completed by early August and along with the Doorplate has since been subjected to various inspections. A minor issue has been found in a couple of positions where holes used to hold the plate down to the former have been welded up. These will be addressed in the coming weeks and re-tested.

    Recently delivered has been the casting for the Regulator J Pipe. This casting sits under the dome inside the boiler with the regulator mounted on top. The J Pipe is basically a 90 degree elbow. The front end of the J Pipe is connected to the Main Steam Pipe which takes the steam from the regulator to the cylinders.

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    The J Pipe casting. Photo – Kevin West

    The patterns have been made for the Damper Door Operating Gear Lubrication Tray and Lid. Castings have been ordered.

    For fitment in the Smokebox we now have the Blast Pipe casting to hand. This is a three into one pipe junction which takes the exhaust steam from the cylinders and combines it under the blast Pipe Cap. After passing through the cap the steam continues up and finally out of the chimney.

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    The Blast Pipe casting. Photo – Kevin West

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    The Blast Pipe Cap casting. Photo – Kevin West

    Also for fitment in the Smokebox are the main Steam Pipe Lower castings. These have been machined at Harco and delivered to Llangollen.

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    LH steam Pipe casting after machining and delivery to Llangollen. Photo – Kevin West

    The casting for the Boiler Steady Bracket has been ordered.

    Brake System and Lubrication System
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    Brake Cross Shaft Mounting following installation under the Drag Box. Photo – Kevin West

    The completed Brake Cross Shaft Bracket has been mounted under the Drag Box and has been fitted with the Brake Cross Shaft and its associated Bushes. All the Brake Gear forward to the Driving Wheels has been fitted and tested. Only the Brake Blocks are awaited to complete this part of the brake system. Design work for these is underway as the original drawing no longer exists.

    The final part required is the 10 ½” dia Steam Brake Cylinder. This is finally due for delivery to Llangollen to be available for inspection by members at out AGM on 11th November. Original delivery date was February 2017! Some final machining is still required that the supplier is unable to do, so this will be undertaken at Llangollen before installation in the next couple of weeks.

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    Brake Cylinder, Llangollen 10th November 2017. Photo – Kevin West

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    Brake Cross Shaft shown after assembly. Photo – Kevin West

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    Brake Adjuster on the main brake Pull Rods. Photo – Kevin West

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    Picture –Vacuum Pipe Mounting

    The Vacuum Brake Pipe section from the front Buffer Beam to the Vacuum Ejector is under construction also while the Bogie is out. Photo – Kevin West

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    Lubrication Pipework for the Axlebox Guides being installed. Photo – Kevin West

    On the lubrication system, many of the pipe runs to the Axlebox Guides are either complete or underway. A start has been made on the runs from the Lubricators to the Cylinders, now that the Lubricators have both been bolted in position.

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    Cylinder Lubrication Pipework on the RH Cylinder. Photo – Kevin West

    The Lubrication Drive Gear has been fitted. A minor modification has been found necessary on one of the links and this will be undertaken once the valve motion has been fully erected.

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    Lubrication Drive Gear installed on LH side. Photo – Kevin West

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    Lubrication Drive Crank mounted behind the LH side Expansion Link. Photo – Kevin West

    Refurbishment of the original 9” Tender Brake Cylinder from 8F 48518 continues at Harco Engineering.

    Pistons, Valves and Motion
    Work is progressing on the procurement and manufacture of the remaining Inside Valve Gear parts.

    Good progress in being made at various suppliers on the remaining parts for the motion.

    The Return Cranks for the outside motion are finally taking shape. These were originally due for delivery in the spring, but various issues at the suppliers have delayed manufacture. The raw material is forged to the basic shape before machining. The first attempts were found to be sub-standard once machining started, so a second attempt was required. The forgings are now complete and machining is underway. We now expect the finished parts to be delivered in the middle of November.

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    Return Crank Forging showing the basic shape. Photo – Stephenson Engineering Ltd

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    Return Cranks undergoing machining. Photo – Stephenson Engineering Ltd

    The Speedometer Drive Crank has been delivered to Llangollen from Askeys Ltd, Wolverhampton. This has been temporarily bolted to the Trailing LH Crank Pin.

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    Speedo Drive Crank. Photo – Kevin West

    The Inside Crosshead has been completed by CMS and moved to Tyseley in preparation to fitting to the Piston Rod.

    The outside Crossheads have had the white metal bearing surfaces re-newed and machined and trial fitted to the Slide Bars. They will also return to Tyseley for Piston Rod fitting when required.

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    Right hand Crosshead – Kevin West

    Both Outside Expansion Links are now mounted in the Motion Girders and bedded into the associated bushes and bearings.

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    LH Expansion Link in position. Photo – Kevin West

    The six sets of parts that make up the three Valve Crosshead Slides have been machined by Harco and delivered to Llangollen.

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    LH Valve Crosshead Slide in position. Photo – Kevin West

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    Die Blocks and Pin for Valve Crosshead Slide. Photo – Kevin West

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    Three of the Valve Crosshead Slides. Photo – Kevin West

    On the Inside Motion the Expansion Link is now installed in the mounting Brackets and connected to the Eccentric Rod. The Inside Big End Bearings have been white metaled, machined and bedded into the Crank Pin on the Crank Axle. These parts are now stored ready for final fitting when the inside motion is erected.

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    Inside Expansion Link on the floor and the Inside Connecting Rod Big End Bearing. Photo – Kevin West

    CMS Cepcor have completed the manufacture of several pieces of motion work to their usual high standard. These have been delivered to Llangollen and include the Inside Combination Lever, Inside Crosshead Gudgeon Pin and Nut, Drop Link and Union Link.

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    Inside Motion parts recently delivered by CMS Cepcor. Photo – Kevin West

    The Valve Rod Bushes for both Front and Rear Covers are now at Llangollen for white metaling and final machining.

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    Front and Rear Valve Rod Bushes. Photo – Kevin West

    Work continues on the final design of the Piston Rods and Valve Rods.



    A quotation for the Inside Radius Rod is in progress. This is the final motion part required for the locomotive.



    Manufacture of the Cab Reverser unit continues at Harco Engineering.





    Drain Cock Gear, Cylinder Relief Valves & Sanding Gear
    All parts for the Drain Cock Operating Gear from the Cab to the Outside Cylinders have been delivered to Llangollen and painting is in progress. Some parts have already been fitted to the chassis.

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    Drain Cock Gear Operating Rod passing through the Boiler Expansion Bracket on the LH side of the loco. Photo – Kevin West

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    Drain Cock Gear Operating Rod passing through the front of the cab on the LH side of the loco. Photo – Kevin West

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    Drain Cock Cranks following fitting to the underside of the Platforms. Photo – Kevin West

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    The Drain Cock Operating Lever in the Cab. Photo – Kevin West

    The Cylinder Relief Valves have been machined and delivered to Llangollen.

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    Cylinder Relief Valves bolted in position under the LH cylinder. Photo – Kevin West

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    Cylinder Relief Valves. Photo – Kevin West

    The Rear Sandboxes have now been given the first coats of undercoat. The Sanding Gear is ready for pipework to be added when time allows.

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    Trailing Sandbox in position and painted in red undercoat. Photo – Kevin West

    The 2 Splashers that fit over the Rear Bogie axle, behind the Outside Cylinders have been painted and are ready for fitting.

    Tender

    Little work to report on the tender as the major effort has been on the locomotive chassis.

    The new Rear Buffer Beam and Frame Stretchers have been delivered.

    Allianz volunteers Day
    Earlier in the year the project was contacted by David Dunn, from Allianz Insurance asking if we would be interested in hosting a party of engineers for a day volunteering on the project? As a result of this offer a party of 25 engineers descended on Llangollen on 20th September.

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    The Allianz engineers in front of The Unknown Warrior. Photo – Kevin West

    As much as we would have liked to have all 25 working on the locomotive it was just not possible, so they divided into smaller groups to work on various tasks for both the project and Llangollen Railway. The Unknown Warrior benefited from a nice deep clean down of all the accumulated workshop dust and both our storage container and 16 ton van was sorted out to provide easier access and some repairs to the shelving in the van undertaken.

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    Sorting out the storage Van. Photo – Kevin West

    Out in the yard a sleeper wall was completed for the coal stack, and two wagon loads of ash were dropped and spread over the carriage siding.

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    Building a new sleeper wall for the col stack. Photo – Kevin West

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    Spreading the ash on the carriage siding. Photo – Kevin West

    A couple even progressed to helping a boiler washout on GWR 2-6-2T 5199, getting very wet and dirty in the process!

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    Boiler washout on 2-6-2T 5199. Photo – Kevin West

    A very enjoyable day for all concerned and our thanks go to all the Allianz staff for their efforts.

    Future Work Planning
    Areas of existing design work include, Boiler Cladding Sheets, Cab Footplate structure and Tender Tank.
     
  7. DisusedBranch

    DisusedBranch Active Member

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    That's a second virtual pint I owe a NatPres correspondent. Agreeing to disagree is both gentlemanly and mature. Bottoms up, KB! :)
    I disagree, Simon. There are certain subjects which unspoken parts of our culture deem are above disagreement and even the mere act of not actively participating in them is frowned upon (witness the social media backlash against anyone on TV not wearing a poppy, whether or not that person has actually donated to the RBL - which is what the act of wearing one should be about).

    Rather than 'undermining' anyone, I would say that the past couple of pages have only gone to prove that the subject of 'remembrance' is one such particularly emotive topic and that, as a result, it and something like railway preservation (where those unspoken rules don't apply - or at least shouldn't, unless it's someone who possibly needs to get out a little more) really are best kept apart.

    I fully participate in 11/11 and donate to the RBL, but I still don't see the need for a 'national memorial locomotive'. But that's just my view.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
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  8. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    Interesting to note that 5500 Patriot was the official memorial locomotive for the LMS and the London Midland Region of British Railways until its withdrawal. Wherever it was in the country, it would be sent to Rugby for polishing and decorating and would be the centrepiece for the Memorial service at Rugby station.
     
  9. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    You are perfectly entitled to have your view, and it not being in favour is also fine. But there are many of us who do wish to have a national memorial loco. It has been railway tradition to have memorial locomotives and unfortunately none of these managed to escape the cutters torch. All we are doing is recreating what we feel "Patriot" "Rememberence" "Valour" were. And being one to represent them all with the name 'The Unknown Warrior'. We havent just tried to use it to gain money. Believe me in my long term plan for the project i really wish to be able to have our own shed with a museum space that will tell the history of railways during the war effort, memorial locos, women working during the war as an educational facility to pass on the knowledge of how big a part railways had in the war effort. Like i will say from start to finish it is not a gimick or money spinner. Its what we feel is right. And at the end of the day with over 1000 members and on target to raise over £500,000 this current financial year im not the only person who thinks its important.
    So i can happily accept that its not your thing but please let us who are proud to be part of it and want it to be what it is have our point too.
     
  10. Cartman

    Cartman Active Member

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    Talking, briefly, about Valour, didn't a Class 66 have the name transferred to it? and are they copies of the nameplates?

    The Patriot group is another group doing a fantastic job, well done to all concerned.
     
  11. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

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    One of the GBRf ones I think, I think The Great Centrals war memorial was rededicated at the same time it was named.
     
  12. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    I don't believe that this is what was happening here on this thread - particularly not with Tornado.

    There is a difference between choosing whether to wear a poppy or not and claiming an organisation is "cashing in" in some form - those exact words used - and there is a potential issue of libel that always rears its ugly head should one throw out accusations without evidence.

    Saying the A1 Trust were cashing in on the use of the name Tornado - do you think that acceptable? Given the facts as I related yesterday?

    On your other point, people do have the choice to wear a poppy or not, a red one or a white one.

    For my part, I am more disappointed than angry with the sheer number of people who cite "freedom of expression" when choosing not to join with others in showing respect to the war dead, which to me is at the heart of wearing the poppy or having a minute's silence.

    People - millions of them - died. Many of them fighting for the freedoms of this country.

    I think on occasion there are some things above disagreement and choosing to take a few minutes out of one day in a 365 day year and wearing a small item of remembrance once a year is the least we could do for the young men who died in the trenches, the men, women and children who died in the gas chambers, the men who were tortured and died abroad and to all who have died or been maimed in subsequent conflicts.

    I'm possibly not the chap to speak to about not choosing to wear a poppy or observe the minute's silence. I feel very strongly about it and I make no apologies for being passionate about respect for the fallen.

    I will however agree with you on one thing: there are means and ways to disagree with people's views and behaviour and I disagree entirely with the poppy witch hunt I have observed online. It does nothing to change people's views and it only results in anger on all sides.

    Respectfully, we can agree to disagree and leave it be. Neither side has to like the other but respect it is a choice. I hope we can do that here.

    That is your view and you are entitled to hold that view.

    However for some people it is absolutely intrinsic. My late grandfather was a bomb disposal expert during the second world war with the royal engineers. Railways and working on them were a big part of his life. There were railway workers who lost their lives in the defence of this country. That was why the GWR, LNER, SR and LMS all built/rededicated war memorials and had memorial locomotives in various ways.

    Building a new Patriot to act as the national memorial locomotive - a title that isn't necessarily one held before, but given the original Patriot's use (as recounted above) isn't entirely out of the realms of fantasy for our country's history.
     
  13. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Member

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    More excellent progress being made... Thank You very much for your time and effort to upload this latest update Kevin. Fascinating reading and viewing!

    Richard.
     
  14. AndyY

    AndyY Member

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    I see that in the latest issue of Heritage Railway magazine there is speculation, albeit unconfirmed, that the Patriot boiler will now be built at the Midland Railway Centre, Butterley.

    Andy
     
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  15. andalfi1

    andalfi1 Active Member

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    If that IS the case, the change from Crewe, to Derby is entirely in keeping with her forbears, nice one if it comes to pass.
     
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  16. aron33

    aron33 Member

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    Interesting.....
     
  17. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

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    Err...the Tornado was only entering service during the Falklands War and most certainly didn't serve in the war. 'Harrier' or 'Vulcan' might have been a different matter but that isn't what 60163 is called!

    Steven
     
  18. Tim Light

    Tim Light Active Member

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    Yes, I already corrected myself. Gulf War more like!
     
  19. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    The choice of Butterley would be an interesting decision - how much major boiler work have they done recently (if ever!)?
     
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  20. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Let's wait and see since there are two significant words there, 'unconfirmed' and 'speculation'.
     
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