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LMS Patriot Project Updates

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Gav106, Apr 10, 2011.

  1. Sheff

    Sheff Well-Known Member

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    +1
     
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  2. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Its good to see your moving forward after the recent set backs, as regards the boiler, it actually makes sence to drop it into the frames , because you can then, make and fit the cladding, do the pipe runs, get everything right, and of course, your ticket is not ticking away, as it would be if you had an already finished boiler, , and of course, it means everything goes back on with less struggle than if you were doing it from scratch, at a time when you would be working to a dead line to finish it, there will still be snagging to be done etc, but the actual plumbing everything in will be faster, and easier when the time comes,
     
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  3. andalfi1

    andalfi1 Member

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    Many thanks for this Gav, I became disillusioned (and I suspect a good few others as well) with the project, a good while ago, when it was reported that there was a possibility that the Cylinders would have to be re cast, with supporting bridges integrated within the castings, this was the final straw for me which came after a catalogue of errors had been reported, requiring remedial action and more money...
    I take this post as an honest and open reappraisal of the situation, for which I thank you, I will now restart my occasional contributions to the project as finances allow, I sincerely hope that any other lapsed contributors to the Patriot will do the same, I really would like to see the project through to fruition, the originals were withdrawn the year I started spotting and it has always been a regret that I never saw one.
    PS. Has the Cylinder situation been sorted out, or is it ongoing..
    Andy
     
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  4. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    Something that people sometimes have a hard time taking on board.

    Noel
     
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  5. Davo

    Davo Member

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    Another update from the L.M.S. Patriot project 30 november to members work continues on the driving wheel sets at Riley and sons engineering to press the driving wheel sets (are all 6 driving wheels been pressed off) the 1st middle sets have been pressed off ok but the rear driving wheelsets axle has had to be cut up cos it proved difficult for the wheels to be pressed off so rileys engineering are making a new rear driving wheel axle for replacement but work on the driving wheel sets has to be paused pending technical clarification be re assembled so they can be welded back on to pass for mainline running standards, more parts have been returned from crewe heritage workshops and the old container sold in replacement for 1 at west shed midland railway centre, And also the reversing gear screw has been sent to west shed for trial fitting and also work at west shed for the smaller brassy bits for the lubrication system and valve chest drains have been made on site in west sheds, and work on the boiler at H.B.S.S. stopped temporarily due to a outbreak of covid affecting workers there. (For more info on L.M.S. Patriot project also see railadvent 4 dec news a engineering update on 5551)
    Davo 56F

    Edit: i was just trying to find out if anyone on nat pres knows if all 6 driving wheels have been pressed off? cos i cant find owt on the lms patriot project engineering updates but it dosent say or ive misread the updates.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2020
  6. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Member

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    I believe only three of the driving wheels were affected by the keyway issue. Obviously both trailing drivers will now be off, as they need a new axle. So that makes four.

    Richard.
     
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  7. Davo

    Davo Member

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    Also issue 47 of the warrior mag is out to members got mine today and it looks like its going to be a interesting 2021 on how the repairs on the valve motion (some of the valve rods have to be remade i think) rods that need the brass bearings re white metalling and wheel sets, bogie frames come along the new bogie frames are needed recutting to original fowler patriot spec cos the axle boxes are 10in wide and on the 8F 48518 they are 11in so does this mean another set of spare bogie frames for 48173 @ C.V.R once the lms pat group get theres completed.
    And on the tender frames things look ok at leaky finders with the drag boxes and horn guides now in riveted in place a order for the tender tank has still to be discussed and maybe funding is still needed to fabricate it.
    Davo 56F
     
  8. std tank

    std tank Member

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    48173 does not have a bogie.
     
  9. huochemi

    huochemi Well-Known Member Friend

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    I don't think any Patriots had a "Fowler spec" bogie. The first 12 had LNWR radial bogies and the remainder (built in Stanier's time) more conventional central pivot side bearer bogies.
     
  10. Davo

    Davo Member

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    Oh ok i wasent aware that the original bogie frames on fowler pats were designed to a L.N.W. pattern, so when the claugtons were rebuilt into patriots was the bogie frames off them reused on the pats?
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2020
  11. Thompson1706

    Thompson1706 Well-Known Member

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    Would that make it a 4-8-0 ?

    Bob.
     
  12. std tank

    std tank Member

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    The drawing for the later Patriot bogie came out of Derby drawing office in 1932. It was similar, but not the same as the original Royal Scot bogie (different wheel centres and detail differences). The bogie was further modified when it was realised that the inner cylinder relief valve fouled the forward crossbeam, but this modification is not shown on the drawing available at the NRM.
     
  13. huochemi

    huochemi Well-Known Member Friend

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    Not sure I understand quite what you are saying. The bogie the Patriot team have built looks very much like a Black Five bogie i.e, a modification of what Nock called the De Glehn bogie as used on Star, Castles Princesses and Duchesses but with plate frames and the inverted leaf spring and equalising beam outside the frame. Did the original Royal Scot bogie have this arrangement and the weight transfer through side bearers?
     
  14. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    I'd be surprised if it did. The side bolsters, to the best of my knowledge, came with Stanier from the GWR, and were known in the Drawing Offices as 'French bogies', from their De Ghlen ancestry.
     
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  15. Davo

    Davo Member

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    I just wasn't thinking when reading in the warrior mag THE AXLE BOXES WERE USED OFF THE 8F and the bogie wheel set I just thought the ex barry tens bogie frame had been adapted to be used on the pat as a 4 wheel bogie frame by fitting an extra frame onto the existing 8F one. So was the 4 wheel bogie frame originally 4 the pat cut new?
     
  16. std tank

    std tank Member

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    Apologies to you and LMS2968. The bogies on the original Royal Scots were modified by Stanier to the De Glehn type. in 1934
     
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  17. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    OK, so when the old engineering team were putting 5551 together in the earlier days, there decision was to use the 8F wheelset, and instead of casting a new set of axle boxes to the correct patriot design, would use and modify the existing 8F ones, remember at the time it was also expected to get a second 8f wheelset from Turkey. Then a redesign of the bogie to accept the different sizes etc. However since their resignation last year the new team, who have also changed us to Ricardo rail, have looked at the design and questioned if there is any paperwork to go with it that would sign it off on the mainline. They have since decided that it would be cheaper to just build a new bogie to the correct design as should really have been done at the start.

    With regards to the wheelsets at Ian Rileys, I believe the two sets that are there have been pulled off the axles, I think one set has been welded back up and been put back on the axle, and the second one is to be done. They were originally then being sent off to Tyseley however I think Rileys now have a wheel lathe set up to be able to do the work in house. Fingers crossed it won't be too long before they are back together, and most importantly fully signed off with the correct paperwork to be put under 5551.
     
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  18. std tank

    std tank Member

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    What is the score with the third wheelset?
     
  19. huochemi

    huochemi Well-Known Member Friend

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    You probably have this but for the benefit of others, this is the annotation on the Claughton bogie drawing which appears to confirm that the locos from 5512 onwards had the Stanier arrangement. (I see drawing 12350 is available from the NRM)
     

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  20. 43729

    43729 New Member

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    Wow.
    Wow again.....
     

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