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LMS Patriot Project Updates

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Gav106, Apr 10, 2011.

  1. Bikermike

    Bikermike Member

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    So does that absolve the contractors then?
     
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  2. 43729

    43729 New Member

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    Not necessarily, but that wasn't really the point I was making.
     
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  3. HBSS Ltd

    HBSS Ltd New Member

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    Dear Davo,

    I was just wondering where you got your information from as it is grossly inaccurate. We have not closed down due to COVID at any point and in fact, have spend a lot a time and money ensuring that our workplace is COVID secure. Work was stopped on the boiler at the request of the group and nothing to do with a fictitious COVID outbreak!

    Regards

    HBSS Ltd
     
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  4. Davo

    Davo Member

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    It was on the L.M.S. patriots members monthly bulletin saying staff members at H.B.S.S. saying the progress of boiler riveting affected staff with a incident of covid @ H.B.S.S. AND NOT HAD TO SHUT DOWN AND IS STILL OPEN due to it im sorry i just got confused eith all these new tier system rules that all i was saying on thinking a outbreak of covid may have disrupted things. Im sorry for getting my wires crossed.
    Davo 56F
     
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  5. HBSS Ltd

    HBSS Ltd New Member

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    No problem Davo,

    But just to be clear, there is not and never has been any incidents of COVID at our workshop!

    Regards

    HBSS Ltd
     
  6. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    Welcome to the forum. Thanks for your polite and informative posts

    Peter
     
  7. fergusmacg

    fergusmacg Part of the furniture

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    I see in Heritage Railway the following which backs that up (no smoke without fire and all that):-

    OFFICIALS of the Llanelli & Mynydd
    Mawr Railway (LMMR) have
    inspected the line’s Avonside 0-4-0ST
    No. 1498 of 1906 Desmond . . . .

    A substantial amount of
    restoration work has already been
    completed on the locomotive at
    the Llangollen Railway.
    However,
    following this initial inspection
    it has been agreed that the
    locomotive will now be partially
    dismantled for a more thorough
    inspection so that a full programme
    of works can be agreed.
     
  8. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I can only imagine that the Llangollen Engineering indemnity insurance must be taking an absolute hammering at the moment.
     
  9. estwdjhn

    estwdjhn Member

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    And in the long run, guess who will be paying for this... I'd expect this ultimately to get spread across the premiums for a lot of heritage railway engineering businesses.
     
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  10. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Maybe, maybe not, if you have a good name, you will want to protect that name, by ensuring you do contract jobs right, and that you have robust inspection at all stages, Many Railway;s engineering business will have decided not to take on contract work, in the light of what went on, or those that have, ensure their clients are fully on board with whats being done, and inspections are carried out, to everyone's agreement, its in no ones interest to turn out a bodged job, Clearly something went very wrong with Llangollen's contract business, and people have fallen on their swords, but its the railway's reputation that will take the hit, as well as the loss of income.
     
  11. Bikermike

    Bikermike Member

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    I think you underestimate the nature of insurance - you try getting any PI for cladding in the building trade at the moment... nobody is getting away without steeply rising premiums. Insurers don't care as much for the bubble reputation as you may think - they are also aware anyone can make a slip. I fit was in no-one's interest to do a bodge-job, they'd never happen.

    I suspect the bigger issue will be that the nature of the risk (and the cost consequences) will be more apparent now, and this will result in more tightly-drawn terms and greater oversight.

    If you could ever get a breakdown of the reason for any uptick in premium (which you won't), it will be more affected by the overall market size (if less people want to write the insurance, there's less fee competition), and wider issues (such as Grenfell), than it will be the specific failings of one institution in the market place.
     
  12. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    I think you both agree on this!

    Noel
     
  13. Thompson1706

    Thompson1706 Well-Known Member

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    You really do need to get the truth before making statements like this. The work was done at Llangollen up to when the owners ran out of money, which was quite a few years ago. Nothing to do with workmanship.
    Regarding other projects you will only have read what people supposedly not in the know have put about. You will have to wait and see what transpires.

    Bob.
     
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  14. Jordan Leeds

    Jordan Leeds New Member

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    They had
    Worth bearing in mind that DESMOND was partially rebuilt and recieved extensive work well before any of the issues reported elsewhere. However a funding gap was the cause of it being put. Out to grass... Awaiting funding to complete the work that had been already done.
    Don't believe EVERYTHING you read, it's easy to cast aspersions as to the whys and Where's and who's broke what.. But there's little foundation in the above and it's relevance to anything else
     
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  15. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    I'm guessing this is Matt Jervis's account reading from the information you have posted over the years. If so, I'm not sure where you are getting your information that many of our members are no longer with us? I'm guessing this is just a guess?

    The blame on contractors that went out in the press and warrior magazines was from our previous chairman who did most of the press releases. I have certainly said multiple times on this thread that our engineering team over the years has made errors which combined with the errors that have been made (fact) by some of our contractors. Our biggest issue has always been having someone internally who knows what quality should have been achieved at each stage and signing it all off. This would have stopped things getting any further out of control, and that would have stopped the need for anything to have ever been released to the press by our previous chair as it would have been sorted straight away. However everyone can be wise with hindsight so all of this is pointless, and the new team who have taken on the engineering just want to get on with that job, not go over old ground all the time. They are trying their best to build a good quality and reliable locomotive. Our new chair and engineers, not being involved at the time, are hardly likely to make a public apology for something they were not involved in either.

    I have never and will never be involved in the engineering side, all I have ever done on here is try to keep people updated with what is going on.
     
  16. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    If you want to be technical, Rob from HBSS was involved with the patriot boiler from the very start as he did most of the work on the smokebox, I remember him marking it all out years ago. Along with that Tyseley were involved with a lot of the outer firebox work, and LNWR Crewe formed the inner copper box. Andy Tranter did a massive amount of work on the boiler while at Crewe as well. I'm not 100% sure but I do believe that Andy from HBSS worked on the boiler while working for LNWR as well. It has definitely been a selection of people, who have done some very good work over the years. I believe even you Jordan worked on the boiler at LNWR Heritage doing some measuring out and drilling of stay holes?
     
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  17. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    you may do well to remember that the preservation movement is very closely knit and people within it are not afraid to talk to each other. As this forum testifies bad news travels incredibly quickly and widely . There are many sharing first hand experience of dealings with railways and engineering businesses , those conversations can have profound implications . Whilst you may believe that everything has been done properly I suspect many of those who have recent first hand experience may not agree . An ostrich approach will do no one any favours especially if phone calls and letters go unanswered , nor will it stave off further actions should it be deemed the only route remaining . Worst case scenario becomes aggrieved parties getting together
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2020
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  18. osprey

    osprey Member

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    Nice honest post..
     
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  19. 43729

    43729 New Member

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    Hi Gavin, Your guess is correct. I make no secret of the fact this is my account. My comment was based on knowing that several of my friends, that I know contributed to the project have past away in the last couple of years. I fear you have taken my comment as a personal attack, this is not the case I assure you. I understand that it can be hard to hear criticism of something that is very close to your heart. For what it is worth I have always appreciated your efforts to keep the wider community abreast of developments with the project and the tireless work you have done to fundraise for the project. I also appreciate that the new members of the team can not be expected to apologise for things they had no part in.

    However, because of precisely this,
    It seems to me that some money contributed to the project has been wasted and not fully acknowledged by the organisation as a whole (not you personally Gavin).

    Kindest Regards

    Matt Jervis
    Self employed boilersmith
    Locomotive owner
    Dogsbody
     
  20. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    Oh I dunno, such apologies seem to be very fashionable in the current political climate...
     
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