LMS Record of 114mph

I think the speed limit overt the S&C was, even at its maximum, 80 mph. The Midland was never renowned for very high speeds, or even arriving on time, if it comes to it!

 

I am sure that the S&C was maintained for 90 mph running in parts but, sadly for the present discussion, I have no textual confirmation or tabulated run logs to confirm it.

 

In the excellent book 'Main Lines Across the Border', O.S. Nock claims to have almost reached 90mph coming down from Ribblehead towards Settle, no details though.

 

I think that, in its prime, there was generally no upper speed limit on the S & C so, in theory, 100+ mph running was possible. The locos running over the line weren't able to reach that sort of speed, though. What speed did 46247 get up to on its trip over the line on 9/7/61? Certainly gave the impression of a high speed to a young lad on his first railtour.

 

How about Penrith to Carlisle? Less twisty than the first part down from Shap but still a good average gradient down.

 

I seem to recall that Tuplin suggested the Severn Tunnel as a good place for high maximum speeds, except that the mileposts can't be seen.

 

I have seen a record of one of the 1st 5 compounds in original condition getting to 93 mph north of Ais Gill . I will look for the source if anyone asks

 

Just remember that drivers didn't always stick to speed limits! Without a speedometer, speed was difficult to judge. And a line passed for 80mph running would need to be maintained to higher speed level, for just this reason.

 

But bearing in mind the empirical nature of much steam era engineering isn't it likely that the speed a line was maintained for was as nominal as a driver's estimation of speed?

 

I would hope that there's a safety margin involved!

 

Sounds like a recipe for disaster, if anything went wrong!

 

Ideal proving ground for a Saint fresh from overhaul

I can never quite tell with Tuplin whether he was a complete numpty, or whether he had a sly sense of humour and enjoyed pulling the legs of his readers...

Tom

 

He was born too soon: I'm quite sure he would have been a serious forum warrior...

 

I think he should be judged by the standards of the day. Technical knowledge etc. have moved on...

 

I gave up trying to make sense of Tuplin's writing a good while since... I had Midland Steam, Great Northern Steam and North Eastern Steam, gave them all away, there was something that just made it damned hard work to read - plus all of his "ideal solutions" to the respective motive power requirements of the various Railways he wrote of.

Richard.

 

My memory of Trains Illustrated logs is that the highest speeds on the WCML northbound were usually on that section at Calthwaite or Southwaite.

 

In the Bradford Barton book 'Border Steam', the author, Peter Brock, mentions a Carlisle Upperby crew who claim to have hit 115 mph with 46248 on the Plumpton straight north of Penrith in 1959.

 

it was booked to cover the 16.65 miles from Ais Gill to Appleby West in 14 minutes so clearly it would have been in a hurry . 71.35 mph pass to pass .I wonder what speed at Ais Gill and what was needed to keep schedule . . probably a 90 lurking there somewhere

 

Faster than the title of this thread.