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LMS Record of 114mph

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by James F, Jun 15, 2018.

  1. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    I think the speed limit overt the S&C was, even at its maximum, 80 mph. The Midland was never renowned for very high speeds, or even arriving on time, if it comes to it!
     
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  2. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I am sure that the S&C was maintained for 90 mph running in parts but, sadly for the present discussion, I have no textual confirmation or tabulated run logs to confirm it.
     
  3. 46223

    46223 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    In the excellent book 'Main Lines Across the Border', O.S. Nock claims to have almost reached 90mph coming down from Ribblehead towards Settle, no details though.
     
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  4. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I think that, in its prime, there was generally no upper speed limit on the S & C so, in theory, 100+ mph running was possible. The locos running over the line weren't able to reach that sort of speed, though. What speed did 46247 get up to on its trip over the line on 9/7/61? Certainly gave the impression of a high speed to a young lad on his first railtour.
     
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  5. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    How about Penrith to Carlisle? Less twisty than the first part down from Shap but still a good average gradient down.
     
  6. LesterBrown

    LesterBrown Member

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    I seem to recall that Tuplin suggested the Severn Tunnel as a good place for high maximum speeds, except that the mileposts can't be seen.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2018
  7. sir gilbert claughton

    sir gilbert claughton Well-Known Member

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    I have seen a record of one of the 1st 5 compounds in original condition getting to 93 mph north of Ais Gill . I will look for the source if anyone asks
     
  8. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    Just remember that drivers didn't always stick to speed limits! Without a speedometer, speed was difficult to judge. And a line passed for 80mph running would need to be maintained to higher speed level, for just this reason.
     
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  9. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    But bearing in mind the empirical nature of much steam era engineering isn't it likely that the speed a line was maintained for was as nominal as a driver's estimation of speed?
     
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  10. Allegheny

    Allegheny Member

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    I would hope that there's a safety margin involved!
     
  11. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Apologies if it's been mentioned already but, of course, the SWML between Worting and Woking is about 26 miles where speeds in excess of 90 were regularly achieved in the 1960s and 100+ was reached a few times. The other location is down from Roundwood approaching Winchester Junction although that is more of an 'accelerated burst' stretch.

    In practice, coming towards London once you were over Roundwood, speed could pick up on the approach to Worting when you'd join the four track section across the junction at 60 ish and then the next slowing would be the approach to Woking. I have a list of around 50 instances when a speed of between 90 and 106 has been achieved with Bulleids and many of them are on the Worting to Woking stretch. So not a fluke by any means. The line remains suitable for such speeds.
     
  12. Allegheny

    Allegheny Member

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    Sounds like a recipe for disaster, if anything went wrong!
     
  13. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Ideal proving ground for a Saint fresh from overhaul ;)
    I can never quite tell with Tuplin whether he was a complete numpty, or whether he had a sly sense of humour and enjoyed pulling the legs of his readers...

    Tom
     
  14. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    He was born too soon: I'm quite sure he would have been a serious forum warrior...
     
  15. Allegheny

    Allegheny Member

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    I think he should be judged by the standards of the day. Technical knowledge etc. have moved on...
     
  16. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Well-Known Member

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    I gave up trying to make sense of Tuplin's writing a good while since... I had Midland Steam, Great Northern Steam and North Eastern Steam, gave them all away, there was something that just made it damned hard work to read - plus all of his "ideal solutions" to the respective motive power requirements of the various Railways he wrote of.

    Richard.
     
  17. 30567

    30567 Part of the furniture Friend

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    My memory of Trains Illustrated logs is that the highest speeds on the WCML northbound were usually on that section at Calthwaite or Southwaite.
     
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  18. 46223

    46223 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    In the Bradford Barton book 'Border Steam', the author, Peter Brock, mentions a Carlisle Upperby crew who claim to have hit 115 mph with 46248 on the Plumpton straight north of Penrith in 1959.
     
  19. sir gilbert claughton

    sir gilbert claughton Well-Known Member

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    it was booked to cover the 16.65 miles from Ais Gill to Appleby West in 14 minutes so clearly it would have been in a hurry . 71.35 mph pass to pass .I wonder what speed at Ais Gill and what was needed to keep schedule . . probably a 90 lurking there somewhere


    Screenshot (202).png
     
  20. Allegheny

    Allegheny Member

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    Faster than the title of this thread.:)
     
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