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LMS tenders

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by CH 19, Jan 19, 2019.

  1. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Member

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    It’s an ex-Jubilee tank on an older chassis (Fowler or possibly older), mated together in preservation.

    (I’m only half reading this thread so I’ve no idea if this information is of any use to whatever it is you are discussing!)


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  2. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    I said it was complex! There were three Stanier tenders of 4000 gallon / 8 tons coal built and to be fitted in order to the first three Pacifics 6200/01/02 as 9000/01/02. In practice, 9002 was attached to 6100 (Nee 6152) for its American tour. They looked like the Fowler version on steroids. All were later rebuilt with in-curved tops like the normal Stanier tenders.

    The tender attached to 936 is a pure Fowler type: 3500 gallons / 5 tons coal, but with the sides extended upwards and, unusually, curved inwards. On most of the extended tenders, the sides remained vertical.
     
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  3. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    While I agree with you about the looks of the LNER eight wheeled tenders attached to their Pacifics the LMS were unable to follow suit. Their Pacifics were that much longer than their LNER counterparts and consequently had to have shorter tenders in order to fit onto existing turntables. Yet another example of the compromise needed in all locomotive design and asthetics.

    Peter
     
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  4. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    Also, extra water cost weight: 2000gallons comes out at about 8.9 tons to be dragged around, which was 8.9 tons less payload.

    The LMS about 1932 decided that the optimum tender water capacity was 3500 gallons, hence the Stanier tenders of that size. But the Pacifics were a bit thirstier so 4000 were needed for them, and this then became the standard amount.

    By this time, engineers were lass concerned about aesthetics than those of the 19th Century. Sad but true! But 6236 on the Southern during the Exchanges and matched with an eight-wheeled WD tender did look the part!
     
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  5. bluetrain

    bluetrain Member

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    Leaving aside Garratts, the longest overall wheelbases in Britain appear to have been the LNER W1 4-6-4 at 64ft 3in and P2 2-8-2 at 64ft 0in. That was with LNER 5000-gallon 8-wheel tenders, whose wheelbase was 16ft. Now if those engines had been paired with Southern Urie/Maunsell bogie tenders, whose wheelbase was 19ft, the result would have been a tight fit on a 70ft turntable!

    A feature of British Grouping-era locomotive design was that similar tenders were often paired with engines of very different sizes. Thus on the LMS in the 1920s, the Fowler 3500-gallon type, of about 42 tons, was standard for new builds ranging from the 49-ton 4F to the 84-ton Royal Scot. A factor would have been that the Royal Scot was expected to be used only on routes well provided with troughs, but the large engine/small tender combination just did not look right!
     
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  6. Hirn

    Hirn Member

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    Never mind the looks of it nor the weak brakes or the way they were prone to derail, 6236 turned in one of the remarkable really fast and sustained runs - into London up the South Western main line with that tender behind her.
     
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