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Locomotive Front End Designs

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by ragl, Feb 19, 2016.

  1. Hermod

    Hermod Member

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    Can a decent front end be made for a two cylinder compound locomotive ?
    It is my sincere conviction that the ideal British Pacific will be this one:

    https://i.imgur.com/ZQjgKpG.jpg

    A 22 inch high presure cylinder on one side,a 33 low pressure inside and some degree of mass balancer on other side.

    http://thierry.stora.free.fr/pics/141tc1_1.jpg

    If fire is destructed when starting away from stop ,I will have dream of something else.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2018
  2. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    :Nurse:
     
  3. Allegheny

    Allegheny Member

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    I would guess so, Porta proposed a three cylinder triple expansion locomotive.
     
  4. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    That's a question worth an answer.... AFAIK, the very last 2-cyl compounds (vonBorries system) operating in these islands were the Bowman Malcolm designed B&NCR 3ft gauge class S (and S1 - just an 'S' stretched by 1ft at the back) 2-4-2t & S2 (one-off 2-4-4t rebuild). The class went extinct in the early/mid 1950's.
     
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  5. sir gilbert claughton

    sir gilbert claughton Active Member

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    I would have thought an inside HP and 2 LP outside cyls would be easier to live with and sit well with the loading gauge
     
  6. Hermod

    Hermod Member

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    Yes but the two cylinder scheme can be a little more efficient and maybe enough to compensate for friction in the balancing ding.Piping etc will be simpler.And it is different
     
  7. Allegheny

    Allegheny Member

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    Being different usually isn't an advantage:)
     
  8. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    with two big soft exhausts per revoloution, draughting could be... interesting
     
  9. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    The balancing of a two-cylinder simple is inherently worse than that of a three-cylinder loco (whether simple or compound), and one with two very different cylinders would seem to be worse still. On the other hand the Smith layout is good for balancing but, with outside LP cylinders that fit the British loading gauge, limits the available TE to about the same as a two-cylinder simple, so one begins to see some sense (though not a lot) in the Webb layout.
     
  10. Allegheny

    Allegheny Member

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    It has been done before. I mentioned on another thread that I'd like to see Aerolite in action.
     
  11. 240P15

    240P15 Active Member

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    Hi there:)

    Just a question from me, not meant as any sort of critisism
    I wonder why it`s always talks about Lempor exhaust. Why not use Kylchap? Isn`t that good enough? I`m not an technical excpert but I know that Chapelon`s world record compound locomotives 240P had such one.

    kind regards,
    Knut
     
  12. Hermod

    Hermod Member

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    Exactly and that is why I ask.
    The smokebox is quite big on an A2/2 and I wonder how much harm a big volume between low pressure exhaust ports and blast nozzle will do?
     
  13. Hermod

    Hermod Member

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    I am not Webbing here but have one high pressure 22 inch cylinder sitting 37 inches from centerplane and driving first axle inside coupling rods.
    Britania has a 20 inch cylinder sitting 40 inches from centerplane and driving outside of coupling rods.
    Reciprocating mass will be 121% of Britania.The low pressure piston is bigger but need not be very much more heavy as maxpressure is lower..
    Balance trouble is 121% of a Britania.
    On the starboard side without cylinder we can use a counterbalancer driven from the front coupling pin like the Nord 2-8-2 tank.
    Balance can then be almost what we like or dare.A two cylinder Compound has more even torque than a common four-cylinder simple
    Stanier pacifics are next in row for improvement.
    According to Cox it had lowest steam consumption of 14.2 lbs per IHPH and best Chapelon was 11.4.My cylinders are bigger and better.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2018
  14. Allegheny

    Allegheny Member

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    Porta published a paper describing how to design a Lempor, and made it freely available. The Kylchap was covered by patents - which have now expired- but there is little or no published information on how to design one, and I think the newer examples are basically copies of the LNER Kylchaps.
     
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  15. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    A couple of billion years of adaptive evolution suggests that may not be the whole story. :D
     
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  16. Allegheny

    Allegheny Member

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    That's why I said "usually":)
     
  17. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    'Usually' you say? How much more 'usually' does it get than what the entire planet's been doing constantly since at least the end of the Late Heavy Bombardment?
    teeth-life-of-brian.jpg.cf.jpg
    (Image lifted from 'themoviegourmet.com')

    ........ I can keep this up indefinitely! ;)
     
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  18. Allegheny

    Allegheny Member

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    There have been vastly more cases of when being different has been a disadvantage!:Arghh:;)
     
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  19. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    ..... just not for very long! :)

    As the flight computer on a starliner in a derelict spaceport on a ruined world had it "The statistical probability is that other civilisations will arise and there will again be lemon-soaked paper napkins .... in the meantime, there will be a short delay until our flight inventory is complete .... please return to your seats". (H2G2)
     
  20. Allegheny

    Allegheny Member

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    I agree with you on that one!

    The probability of a random differece being better than the original is pretty small!
     

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