If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Locomotives that NEARLY made it

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Hicks19862, Apr 22, 2020.

  1. misspentyouth62

    misspentyouth62 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    1,381
    Likes Received:
    1,737
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    34D, now flexible
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Indeed - I have a habit of looking for stampings on motion parts too to show their history. One of the parts now on Didcot's Saint class 2999 I saw has worked on 4942 (obviously!), 4977,4912,4986? & 4908? For parts that were 'standard' and moved between locomotives during works visits, I'm surprised they stamped numbers on them?
     
  2. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    15,326
    Likes Received:
    11,662
    Occupation:
    Nosy aren’t you?
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I rather like that of the manors that we have with us 7802/8/12 and 19 were Moguls in a previous life.
     
    misspentyouth62 likes this.
  3. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,099
    Likes Received:
    57,414
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I looked up the boiler records for the H class (in connection with an article I wrote for the SE&CR Society). As preserved, 263 carries boiler number 638. This was constructed new in January 1914 and attached to locomotive 395 (a member of the Stirling class O1 - that would have been the class O to O1 rebuild). Following spells in 391 (class O1), 248 (class O1), back to 1391, 1385 (class O1), 1259 (Wainwright H), 31521 (class H) and 31259 again, it was fitted to 31263 in 1959, at the same overhaul as the locomotive was fitted with a flared bunker.

    Along with sundry other repairs and renewals, a complete new firebox was fitted in 1933.

    It is a curious feature of the boiler record that the clerk at its first post-nationalisation repair dutifully lists the locomotive number as 31521, after which each repair lists the locomotive number as the old SR numbers, even as late as July 1961 when the boiler is recorded as being repaired while in locomotive 1263. Clearly enthusiasm for BR started bright but then waned ...

    Tom
     
  4. misspentyouth62

    misspentyouth62 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    1,381
    Likes Received:
    1,737
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    34D, now flexible
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    here we see part of 5MT 44781 having 'made it' at the GCR
    44781_GCR_010918.JPG
     
  5. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    15,326
    Likes Received:
    11,662
    Occupation:
    Nosy aren’t you?
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I think the chimney survives somewhere as well.
     
  6. Gareth

    Gareth New Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2013
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    65
    Gender:
    Male
    A loco (in part) that does still sort of exist is the standard gauge double Fairlie, Mountaineer. The boiler is thought to still exist, in use as a culvert on the old trackbed of the Burry Port and Gwendraeth Valley Railway, not bad for a boiler built in the 1860's.
     
    ragl, Richard Roper and Bluenosejohn like this.
  7. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    8,068
    Likes Received:
    5,160
    I think that will be the authentic colour for the NCC mogul that the RPSI are hoping to build. Personally I think it looks just as good on the smaller and later mogul, even though inauthentic.
     
    andrewshimmin likes this.
  8. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,310
    Likes Received:
    1,355
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Librarian
    Location:
    Just up the road from 56E Sowerby Bridge
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    And part of the cab which was recently dragged from its resting place since the filming of The Virgin Soldiers...

    Richard.
     
  9. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    15,326
    Likes Received:
    11,662
    Occupation:
    Nosy aren’t you?
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Yes I saw the Article in Steam Railway I find it so bloody infuriating 44781 came so close to being saved and ended up going to the gas axe. All this is not that far away from where I live.
    When I tell the tale to people about how one of the last steam locos to work for British Rail was cut up on their doorstep they seem very surprised, then the next question is 'why wasn't it saved?'
     
    Richard Roper and jnc like this.
  10. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,099
    Likes Received:
    57,414
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Can’t save everything - how many black 5s do you want? ;)

    Tom
     
  11. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    15,326
    Likes Received:
    11,662
    Occupation:
    Nosy aren’t you?
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Enough to send over to the Isle of Wight ;):)
     
    andrewshimmin, cav1975 and Gareth like this.
  12. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    11,930
    Likes Received:
    10,088
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    842 would be good:)
     
  13. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    15,326
    Likes Received:
    11,662
    Occupation:
    Nosy aren’t you?
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Mr Riley's Wet dream:) I'm with his statement of 'you can't beat a black five'
     
    Richard Roper and weltrol like this.
  14. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,099
    Likes Received:
    57,414
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Yeah, but that’s an S15. I can understand wanting more of those ...

    Tom
     
  15. Hicks19862

    Hicks19862 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2015
    Messages:
    738
    Likes Received:
    612
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Manchester
    I wish more B1s and K1s had survived. Useful
    For heritage railways and would have bolstered the Eastern survivors
     
  16. misspentyouth62

    misspentyouth62 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    1,381
    Likes Received:
    1,737
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    34D, now flexible
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Those more expert may want to correct me if I have this wrong but I believe that the boiler residing on 60019 'Bittern" at withdrawal came from A1/1 60113 'Great Northern' in 1965 - can't recall if this is one of the boilers still with us though. The A1 had been withdrawn in 1962 and was cut at Doncaster in early part of 1963 so boiler was retained?
     
    Hicks19862 likes this.
  17. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,761
    Likes Received:
    2,160
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I'm always impressed by how "standardised" some parts on some pre-grouping railways were.
    The examples above about the Wainwright boilers are very impressive.
    Horwich and Crewe were similarly minded, and always used the same boiler/wheels/motion/parts for a new class wherever they could.

    Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
     
  18. clinker

    clinker Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2016
    Messages:
    569
    Likes Received:
    348
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    romford
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer



    I said some time ago that they were all no better and no worse than one another at standardising, it seems to Me that the only remarkable thing about Swindon standardisation was that they had (needed?) so many different classes made up of so many 'standard' components in order to run a service. Oh and they all looked the same.
     
    Wenlock likes this.
  19. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,099
    Likes Received:
    57,414
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Some LCDR 4-4-0s were re-boilered in SECR days with second hand ... GNR boilers. Indeed, even, the GNoSR railway 4-4-0s that were bought by the SE&CR ended up also carrying GNR boilers.

    I think at root, amongst the pre-grouping companies, they all pretty much built variations of 0-6-0 goods; 0-4-4T passenger tank and 4-4-0 express passenger engine, and there are only so many ways you can perm the dimensions given certain fixed constraints such as maximum length of coupling rod; width between frames for cylinders etc. Dimensionally, there were incremental increases in boiler power and cylinder size, but to a degree there was less scope for changing the overall length of locos (not least because that might have knock on effects, for example needing to replace turntables once locos got beyond a certain size - which I know in some cases, and I suspect quite widely, constrained ever increasing size of locomotive design).

    So if you have a 4-4-0 with nine foot coupling rods and the firebox sitting between the axles and the smokebox over the cylinders, it's a reasonable bet that a boiler designed for another 4-4-0 with nine foot coupling rods etc etc will probably fit fairly easily. You might at most need to muck around a bit with the centre line of the boiler depending on the depth of the firebox, which then needs modification to the cab front sheet and maybe the height of boiler fittings. Furthermore, if you have classes such as the Stirling Q 0-4-4T and O 0-6-0 that are originally built around the same boiler, it is a fair bet they will both easily accommodate the same replacement boiler; dimensional concerns then allow that that boiler will also fit the the LCDR B class 0-6-0 and R / A series 0-4-4T, as well as the new design H class 0-4-4T

    (I should say - and we have had the discussion before - that the SECR, and the SER before it, was particularly highly standardised in its loco designs).

    In a way, the twentieth century introduces much more variety that makes such things harder: for example, introduction of locos of 2-6-0, 4-6-0, 4-4-2, 2-6-2, 2-6-4, 4-6-2, 2-8-2 wheel arrangement which were only just beginning or unknown in the nineteenth century.

    Tom
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2020
    Bluenosejohn, Steve and andrewshimmin like this.
  20. Thompson1706

    Thompson1706 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2007
    Messages:
    2,438
    Likes Received:
    1,844
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Rhiwabon
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    It's sad that the L & Y 0-4-4 tanks used as carriage warming boilers weren't put aside for preservation, although preservationists would never be able to produce new crank axles and motion !
    To survive for so long after withdrawal from traffic as well.

    Bob.
     
    Spinner likes this.

Share This Page