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LSL Ltd / Icons of Steam fleet

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 26D_M, Jul 21, 2017.

  1. MarkinDurham

    MarkinDurham Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I was going to comment earlier, but got distracted. You're right; the driver hadn't been on her before. IIRC the owner/NELPG insisted on some training for crews once she returned to service.
     
  2. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Part of the furniture

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    I seem to recall Geoff Drury was ready to pull Blue Peter off the mainline if BR/Res whoever it was at the time were not prepared to do so at the time.
     
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  3. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    I stand corrected about the need for drivers to sign for particular locos or classes, but I am surprised. Is it likewise not necessary for the various classes of diesel loco?
     
  4. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Part of the furniture

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    I'm sure if you sign for say class 20's your ok for 37's 40's and 50's (they're all part of the same family) although I'm guessing you still need a signature on a piece of paper to say so!
     
  5. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    WCR drivers obviously sign their own fleet but for example only a few sign Deltics. The appearance of a Colas loco on an SSE last year was for driver refresher purposes. WCR sometimes supply drivers for Colas workings.
     
  6. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    These days I guess the onus is on the operator of the traction to specify the competence criteria applicable based on evaluated sources of risk. Such things would be intrinsic to a safety management system that itself is subject, I presume, to periodic independent assessment. An assessor presumably has to decide whether the operator has justified its approach in a credible manner. For example, does an operator document the differential characteristics of an original Bulleid, LNER and GWR from LMS/BR practices? Genuine question because I do not know the depth expected to demonstrate effective management.
     
  7. peckett

    peckett Member

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    No,Each class had to be trained on.45.0 (Peaks )that went to Wellingboro' from Toton ,could not even be moved on Wellingboro' shed by local men ,although Wellingboro' men were trained on the other versions of 45s.The same was for the class 20s that arrived in pairs from Toton on coal Trains. Once passed on steam ,you drove all.
    When diesels were taking over on the Midland and not very reliable,with plenty of replacements by steam ,a crew could be waiting at Kettering to relieve a express and anything could turn up Britannia,Royal Scot ,Jubilee ,Black 5 ,BR 5 ,B1 and I even saw a Crab. I well remember one Friday evening on Kettering station when a crew was waiting to relieve a Sheffield express(which they worked to Nottingham) that had been a diesel all week, when it came round the corner with a Britannia on, I cant remember the number but it was 70051/2/or 3,one of the ones that went new to Polmadie fitted with coal pusher.Fireman was none to happy, he wasn't expecting to shovel a ton and a half or so of coal.that evening.
     
  8. brit70000

    brit70000 Member

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    Regarding Britannia:
    My memory is telling me that prior to the branch line between Cambridge and St. Ives (Cambs.) being converted to a guided busway, in a period when the track remained in situ that Britannia was seen and photographed in use (on test/trail runs?) over part of this line. Can anybody confirm that this is correct, or is my memory playing tricks on me?
    The reason for asking is that a friend of a friend who lives in Longstanton (a former station on this line) has been told that Britannia was the last loco to be seen going through their station. I cannot see how this could be possible unless it happened subsequent to the loco being preserved and maybe the branch line was used as overnight stabling between rail tours?
     
  9. Johnb

    Johnb Part of the furniture

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    It was a test run 15 September 1991 to the limit of the line at Fenstanton, topped and tailed with 34027. Seen here near Swavesey

    70000-35027 Swavesey 15-09-91.jpg img1200382.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
  10. brit70000

    brit70000 Member

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    Brilliant! Good to know that my memory was not playing tricks on me.
    Many Thanks Johnb
     
  11. bristolian

    bristolian Member

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    Windmill Bridge?
     
  12. Johnb

    Johnb Part of the furniture

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    I'm not sure of the exact location but you may be right. There weren't many bridges on that line
     
  13. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Port Line??!! :eek:
    Taw Valley :)
     
  14. Johnb

    Johnb Part of the furniture

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    Typo it was 34027!
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
  15. richards

    richards Part of the furniture

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    With two high-profile diesels now joining the fleet, is anyone else slightly concerned that so many main-line operating locos are now in the hands of one person? His companies may appear to have bottomless pockets at the moment, with the rebuilding of Crewe depot, and buying carriages and locos like they're going out of fashion. His name is always mentioned when a loco comes on the market, or the existing owners can't afford a major overhaul. But it a creates a very one-sided market, with decision-making in the hands of only a few people.
     
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  16. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    I guess I see your point, but I think there are advantages to the way he's doing things. One of the big benefits of the locos being part of companies rather than his own property is that in the event of Mr Hosking suddenly no longer being with us, the future of the locomotives as operational machines on the mainline would be much more secure. Also, with regard to one sidedness, the fact that LSL is now its own TOC surely has reduced the one sidedness of the market to a certain degree, at least in terms of TOCs.
     
  17. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Not sure there is any guarantee is there, looking as an example at the company associated with 5029 Mr H is the sole director so I suspect if (god forbid) something happened it would not be hugely different to personal ownership, I assume that the ones under Trust ownership have a different structure but its never been really clear why they haven't all been placed within the Trust bit?

    Bringing another player to market in the TOC stakes can only help to balance the market and WCRC withdrawing from down south leaves an open door for that, although its going to take sometime until they get up to speed,. I did see note elsewhere of a suggestion that they might be taking the TBL work on first which would remove a large element of the DBC work so I suppose the only concern would be if LSL essentially ended up taking over DBC's work and we end up with two operators and not much changed as its going to take some resourcing to take on the DBC and WCRC southern work, if the issue for WCRC was shortage of drivers LSL are going to have to magic some out of somewhere which will take substantial investment.
     
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  18. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Part of the furniture Friend

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    I have no idea really, but the usual reason for setting things up as a Limited Company is the limiting of liability to the individual: it is also much more tax efficient.

    Say for example, a person sets himself up as a sole trader. If said person in the process of the work he carries out causes an accident or worse, that person is personally liable. If however, he sets himself up as a limited company, he is an employee of that company and it is the entity that is the company that is liable, not the individual. Which is why companies have Public Liability Insurance; even the average one-man band is covered up to £10m in most cases.

    I remember having a discussion with someone who expected me, as a freelance contractor, to ignore the Working Time Directive. I pointed out that my company expects its employees to comply fully with the European Working Time Directive, which was met with "don't be silly, you are your company".

    "No, I am not. I am an employee of my company, my company is a legal entity that has no corporeal substance. My company says I must work according to the WTD, and that is what I am doing."

    He couldn't get out of that one... :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
  19. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    The elephant in the room over these new TOCs is the potential issue of crew availability into the future.

    Consider the two current availability streams:
    1. People who are currently working on the main line as their day job. They routinely drive the routes that they have signed for and some of them also drive steam locomotives after training (or diesels) on charters from time to time. (Example - DBC)
    2. People who have recently (or not so recently) retired or resigned from driving locomotives on the main line and who are contracted to drive locomotives on a part time basis. They retain what route knowledge they have through the charters that they drive (diesel or steam) as frequently or infrequently as they are required to. (Example - WCRC)

    Model 1 is sustainable provided that the TOC ensures a proportion of their employees are trained and retain knowledge of operating steam locomotives. All other operational matters connected with main line work should be covered by their day job.
    Model 2 is limited by how 'up to date' the route knowledge is of any person. Also, by the nature of those who are employed, the average age of a typical crew member will be older than Model 1.

    Both models demand knowledge and competence in operating the locomotive(s) in question. Both models demand an up to date and regularly refreshed knowledge of all operational and route matters as they relate to driving on the network. Any new TOC would presumably have to demonstrate how that happens before it could be licensed.

    It strikes me that whilst both models exist currently and must presumably be acceptable to the ORR, Model 1 feels more secure into the future. So it will be interesting who drives the LSL steam fleet in the future when the set up becomes its own TOC.
     
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  20. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

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    Steam Railway reports that LSL has taken on two steam drivers Fred Lewis and Shaun Levell.
     
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