LSWR T1 new build ?

Good afternoon chaps,

This is my first post here, and the catalyst for joining up was primarily to start this discussion. As I'm sure some of you were aware, a couple of years back( not quite sure how long ago) a T1 boiler was found along with a GNR Atlantic boiler that now forms the basis of the Brighton Atlantic project.
In contrast, however the T1 boiler seems to be sitting idle currently at the Avon Valley railway:http://www.flickr.com/photos/kev_slade/8376836324/ , there doesn't seem to be a project to build a new one, despite the fact its 1P power rating would make it suitable for many of the railways in the south (I'd personally like to see it on Swanage even though it'd be a bit small).

It seems to me that someones missing a trick hear, it would cost THAT much compared to doing up a Spam Can with the major building block such as the boiler already in place-Take the G5 project for example. I'm not sure whether the T1 boiler was shared with any other classes such as the 0395s for a example but this boiler is crying out to be used.

As far as I'm aware nothing's happening to it, does anyone know any different ?

Cheers,

Will

 

There's nothing wrong with doing up a Flat-Top: they're worth every penny and draw in the crowds. However, I do agree that things have gone quiet regarding this boiler, but at least it is still in existence; so long as it remains thus, there will always be a chance that something positive will be done with it in future. It would be interesting to find out what locomotive number it was last fitted to, as it would help give a future project more of an identity.

 

Totally agree about Bulleids, wasn't trying to say it wasn't worthwhile doing them up. It's just particular at Swanage ( a railway I occasionally volenteer at) they're doing them up pretty frequently and if an Ex Barry one of them is restorable a small 0-4-4T should be possible.

Does anyone know of the owner of the boiler ? Have there ever been plans for a rebuilt ? I agree about the identity, would give any potential project a better starting point.

 

Don't know the identity of that specific boiler, but for a bit of variety, the same boiler (and motion and cylinders) were used on the Adams Jubilee class, which would be something a bit different - there are quite a few Victorian / Edwardian 0-4-4T engines, but not too many 0-4-2 tender engines, certainly not in running order!

Tom

 

I like the sound of that! Now you're talking! Where do I sign up ?

 

I seem to recall there were mutterings about ten years ago, but it all went quiet. Looking at the smokebox, it's nice to see some flush riveting for a change. Just to throw in a curve-ball, it could also be a boiler from an F6, which were as per T1, but with steam chests located between the cylinders. So this boiler could be used on one or the other. All T1s had been withdrawn by 1936, so it depends on whether the prospective project wishes to do a late Southern livery or not, with the possibility that one or two F6 locomotives might have had a BR number painted on them.

 

F6?

There's a LSWR G6 0-6-0T, but AFAIK, the boiler and innards of those were based around the O2 (as on the Isle of Wight), not the T1.

Tom

 

Furthermore, examples of the F6 variant operated on the S&DJR during the war, so this would be quite apt for an expanded operation at Midsomer Norton.

 

The T1s were the first 20 of the type, with those built under order F6 being regarded as sufficiently modified to warrant their own sub-classification within the T1 series.

 

Ah, never heard them called a different name. The class codes used for later LSWR engines actually refer to workshop order numbers, with the class normally taking the name of the first order - hence the T1s were built under order numbers T1 (20 engines); F6 (10 engines); S6 (10 engines) and A7 (10 engines) with a further order for ten engines cancelled by Drummond. As you say, there were detail differences between the first twenty and the last thirty (all of F6, S6 and A7 orders), notably the position of the steam chests, and the loss of 200 gallons from the side tanks made up by a well tank beneath the bunker. Visually, I think you'd struggle to tell the difference from the outside.

Tom

 

I think that Calbourne's boiler record card showed that it spent some of its history on a G6, maybe someone could check.

 

The possibility of building an Adams Jubilee 0-4-2 around the surviving boiler has been mentioned on here before, and met with general approval. Certainly, I'd love to see one in action. I suppose a tender loco may be a bit more trouble to move between lines (2 low-loaders needed, compared to 1 for a tank loco). It would make an interesting comparison with the SECR 0-6-0s at The Bluebell. Perhaps not strong enough for year-round service on the MHR, but very suitable for low-season work on any of the surviving Southern branch lines.

I guess the biggest problem, for any replica, would be drawings. What LSWR drawings survive? Even if some general arrangement drawings still exist, would they be remotely good enough to allow sufficiently detailed designs to be drawn up? Time for someone to go digging through the NRM Search Engine?

 

From what I've gathered the hunt for drawings is the most arduous, time consuming and long winded part of any new build project, but also the one requiring least capital. That being the case would it make sense for a bunch of LSWR enthhusiasts to get together and conduct a hunt for drawings of *all* potential classes, and then worry about what they *will* build when the drawing search has identified what they *can* build?

 

A jubilee would be without a doubt a real winner and significantly different too pretty much any other running locomotive to make a rebuild worthwhile.

This website has a few A12 drawings listed :http://www.lswr.org/core.asp?Page=34&Id=1, perhaps suggesting more else where?


I for one would be on the band wagon...

 

With regard drawings, I know the Bluebell had a deal with the NRM whereby they were given free copies of any drawings needed for the Atlantic in exchange for providing the manpower and expertise to catalogue the NRM's southern drawings. So possibly it is already known which drawings exist, or at least a start has been made.

That said, despite being the largest of the constituents of the SR, the LSWR seems to be the poor relation as far as preservation goes. An Adams Jubilee or a T1 would really need LSWR coaches (neither ran in BR days, at least not extensively) but to my knowledge, only the Bluebell even has a plan to restore a set of LSWR coaches, and given the understandable focus on things LBSCR and SECR on that railway, the LSWR set will be decades away, if it even happens at all. Neither the Swanage nor the MHR seem very interested in anything except representing the BR(S) era - fair play to them, that's their prerogative - but it's hard to imagine either of those lines being too interested in a new build of a relatively small Victorian loco. So as a fan of the LSWR, I'd love to see it happen, but my perception is that there just isn't the motivation in the preservation movement as a whole for anything to happen with that boiler. Would love to be proved wrong, of course!

Tom

 

Forgive me Tom but you will guess where I am coming from! It strikes me that this is just the sort of issue where the preservation "movement" has the seeds of its own destruction. We have the means to create a new build of a sensible machine which could earn its keep pottering around at 25mph at the head of a trainload of people wanting a fun day out. No-one appears to be interested but instead there are several groups aiming to produce coal scoffers not particularly suited to their prospective duties.

There is another current thread dealing with coal shortages and consequent price issues. More "joined up" thinking please.

P.H.

 

If people want to build something then good luck to them.... Who are others to say what or what they should not build....... As for the T1 project parts are being collected and made for this at a good rate..... how do I know the because the guy doing it told me so when he picked up a chimney for the loco from me.

Stan

 

So, there is a T1 building project already operating under the radar? That's excellent news, and judging from the posts this week, they'll pick a lot of support when they are ready to break cover, provided the t's are crossed, the i's dotted and the sums add up. Looking forward to learning more!

 

That's good to hear, is there a trust or group for the T1 or is it the work of a private individual ?