LSWR T3 563

How is starting with absolutely nothing going to be quicker and cheaper than starting with an existing coach, where you already have a load of parts (albeit in need of refurbishment) ?

 

I think the comparison was with building new steam locos, but I agree with the thrust of your argument nonetheless, we don't need to be new-building coaches to have a reasonable LSWR train.

 

Got that right!

I wasn't just meaning LSWR - it could be any company & one of these days new MkI's will be needed........ never say never.....

 

Given the amount of orginal material which is left after some restorations, I wouldn't think it would make much of a difference.

 

So are you saying from this and other recent posts that "they" should not even bother at looking to make an aplication? I would have thought that with your disdain of mk1 proliferation on preserved railways, then even the slightest chance of funding for appropriate coaching stock could do with a bit of encouragement.

Or is this just another case of the Wight walker satiating his need to crush the human spirit?

 

So you think the IOWSR could have constructed a complete new Oldbury coach including amongst other things:

- Designing and building a complete new frame
- Building brand new doors
- Reproducing small parts, door handles etc

Etc etc

And this could have been done in less than 6 months with a smaller budget?

It always has to be easier to start with something, even if only a limited number of parts can be used.

 

Absolutely nothing to do with the merits of individual cases but everything with how much money the Lottery has to distribute at the moment. Hopefully ticket sales will revive. Sorry if this was not made clear before.



PH

 

Ok, I think! I'm still getting that negative vibe! Without knowing the in and outs of your lottery grants, I would have thought it would still be worth dipping your toe in even if the odds of success were slimmer than previously. Grants should come very high on any groups fundraising ideas list. Nothing like a big wodge of cash to get the W.I.B.N kicking along!

 

It's not often I stand up for Paul (actually this is a first) but he does have a point about the source of funding and he is also right to point towards the A1 Trust model of covenanters and similar.

But we shouldn't rule out any and all sources of funding. I think the future shows we have to be multi-disciplined in terms of funding, to the extent that we should all be doing at a bare minimum probably the below now:

• monetising our social media (particularly videos) through YouTube, Vimeo, etc
• have easy to use websites for donations to be made instantly
• use of online resources such as paypal to make selling our products easier
• tailor our products to the tourist and enthusiast market more closely (less of the railway "tat", more experiences)
• find new sources of advertising revenue
• work more closely with local businesses
• appeal to a wider demographic of tourists

There's more I suspect, it's early and I am just getting up for work (my apologies). But you get the point.

 

This post by SACM puts into finer detail what I tried to convey in my post 1327, in this thread. Preservations have to look beyond the 'handouts' of the past, which are not so readily available now.

 

I am not sure that there have been that many 'handouts' the HLF has really only been over the last 20 or so years and for the first 40 years there were no such big schemes. Some railways have I think previously been able to tap into EU regional funding (this maybe a source that is lost).

There is I think also a worrying reliance on a handful of wealthy patrons to sort out 'big projects' (thinking here about a former Pop Producer, Crystal Palace backer etc) - what happens if said individual goes bankrupt (as has happened in the past with wealthy backers) or they get bored

At the same time there are also projects like the Baby Deltic project that get their funding from elsewhere and don't seem to go for this.

At the moment it is hard to devise a suitable model because of the high level of political and economic instability in the UK. At the moment we have very little idea what the shape of the economy is likely to be over the next decade - will there be a sustained period of economic problems, will there be fewer tourists or less disposable income for people to donate to projects, or will there be alternative funding streams, will domestic tourism increase...

I don't want to make this a political argument but simply to say, that at the moment no one knows what the funding situation is going to look like over the short to medium term, so it is hard to say that any strategy that works now may or may not work in a few years time.

I get this feeling too. If the T3 were restored and put on a rank of mk1s there would be howls of outrage from the islands at the lack of authenticity.

 

Yet no one seems to say a word about the Crimson Lake Crab hauling MK1 coaches at the ELR, or the O1, H or C hauling Mk1 stock at the Bluebell...

Give SR a chance, the coaches are not being forgotten and with any luck 563 can propel their restoration forward.

 

Actually, a mark 1 is not that much different to a Bulleid coach, which the T3 did just about coincide with

 

Except that they are of totally different construction methods and internally have bags more character. A good MK1 is okay but in my humble opinion a Bulleid coach will beat it hands down.

 

I'll be quite happy to ride behind the LSWR livery T3 in a Mk 1 (But ecstatic in a wooden coach with compartments and droplights)

 

An early MK1 that's not been plasticised and has all of its wooden fittings restored is very much on a par with an Bulleid coach, an open non compartment coach from the 1930's I think set the design for what came afterwards, true, manufacturing processes changed, from wooden framing ,with steel cladding, on the early designs to full metal on the Mk 1s construction, and some later designs, evolution rather than revolution .
As regards the T3, there are already 3 LSWR vehicles that are in restored condition, 2 of which have been, or are runners , one at Bluebell, one at Middleton Railway, there may be one more, and of course theres the tri compo that's part of the NRM collection, So the chance is always there of putting at least 3 vehicles together as part of a relaunching ceremony . possibly more depending on time span, and fund raising to get the new firebox made and engine re assembled who wouldn't like the sight of 563 standing in steam in the bay platform at Swanage with a rake of LSWR coaches , and of course, tickets to travel on this one off special could be sold at a premier price due to the rarity especially when you think, one vehicle was also past of the channel 4 programme, and a Royal saloon.

 

I do think that if 563 is restored to steam, it would be a great idea actually to plan a big relaunch event for it, and having some original LSWR coaching stock present and running behind it would truly be a glorious sight to behold.

Indeed such a sight could well kick start further interest in getting even more of these vintage carriages restored, especially on the Swanage Railway as they could well want to recreate such a sight on a regular basis, for it would most certainly give the line a big unique selling point to draw people to visit.

 

You might get 1520 and the royal coach Martin. I doubt the NRM would release the tri compo and let it used in traffic though.

 

The tri-composite hasn’t moved for decades and is a non-starter without a heavy overhaul on doors and running gear. Goodness knows what the electrics are like. It was treated for extensive dry rot a number of years ago so it’s doubtful whether the body integrity is sufficient for traffic.

That leaves 1520 plus the royal thing. Don’t quite know what the clamour is for ‘authentic’ rolling stock for 563 is. Nearly all preserved lines run everything and nothing behind the ubiquitous MK1 or now MK2 dustbins so what is different here?

 

Ethusiasts and the general public are becoming a lot more discerning with coaching stock these days.

The attitude of ‘people don’t care what they sit in as long as there’s a steam loco on the front’ (which I once heard the GM of a major steam railway say), is not true.