Lucas Firing shovels

Lucas didn't just do forged shovels - they did pressed ones as well for the Western (don't know what the Southern used). The sizes of these varied form Pannier tank size to ones with a 2 foot blade for larger engines. The repro pressed shovels don't really compare to be honest, although the ones sold by the Friends of Hagley Hall aren't bad at all ;-), and certainly better than some other repro makes on the the market. I'd agree though, that forged or pressed (depending on the type of engine that you are on), nothing matches the quality of the original Lucas shovels.

 

I was once told that the LNER and LMS used the spoon (cast) shovels because the coal thrown from it would land in one place in the firebox. Better for keeping the dish shaped fires. This type of shovel is also better used on a wide firebox loco, so the coal can be flicked into the back corners.

The pressed shovels that the western used are much wider, so that the coal can be piled into the box without needing to worry about where it lands, i.e. the massive wedge shaped fire that all western engines need.

 

..............................clearly not a skilled fireman making this rather anti GW & certainly inaccurate comment.

 

All Western engines? I wouldn't put a massive wedge in a 57xx for starters...

 

The only wedge you'll get in one of them is the driver's sandwich.

 

All Western engines? I wouldn't put a massive wedge in a 57xx for starters...[/quote:1t28qj6q]

A nice saucer shaped fire is what you need in a 57xx

 

But near the truth, though....... \/

 

So nothing to do with the small flap-style firebox doors then?

 

The larger western locos though, with the 57xx being the one exeption. Are you happier with that comment?

 

Flap doors on LNER engines then. Never seen any on midland locos...

 

Does this mean that panniers are classed as large engines, or that there are no other small engines around?

Anyway, I thought that bigger shovels were provided so that other companies' crews could be beaten into submission, whenever the question of who had the best engines arose?!

 

All Western engines? I wouldn't put a massive wedge in a 57xx for starters...[/quote:3vdiaiq2]

You can have it up to the doors on a pannier????

 

Anyway this section is about different types of shovels, and not an individuals firing techniques. Shouldnt we get back onto topic.

1472... Not a skilled fireman eh. Have you ever met me then? Probably best seeing someone fire a loco before saying that they are not skilled...

 

The comment makes no sense - you would not put any more fire in a Hall than a Black 5 - the fire would be tailored to suit the work/route in hand.

You certainly would not want a wedge fire in a 57xx/14xx/64xx/90xx/2301/etc.(all parrallel boiler locos).

You would want a larger backend to suit the work with the taper boiler locos - but no more so than with similar boilers on other locos.

The shovel though remains something of a precision tool for craftsman use whichever style & loco type is in use.
The WR shovel would be of no use on an LNER loco for example but is well suited on the locos it is intended for with different handle versions for tank & tender locos (and possibly shorter blades for the smaller tank locos).

 

Ive fired a pannier with a wedge and it was fine ive also fired a pannier with a saucer fire and it was fine! Dont understand why your saying you cant do it on a 57???

 

I have seen a wedge fire work OK on a 57xx - but it has to be good coal. I've seen 57xx's fired with a wedge with coal that is prone to clinker or build up a bed of ash, and boy, is the fireman in for a rough trip if you are going any significant distance.
A saucer shaped fire in a 57xx in my experience much less likely to be adversely affected by indifferent coal - keeping it 'bright and bouncing on the bars' always seems to work well.

Glad someone beat me to the comment about the other GW classes that don't neccesarily like a big back end - 813 can be added to that list too!

 

Id agree with that you wouldnt put a big back in end in something smaller like 1369 or a 14

 

The first time i fired a 57xx (7754) the driver told me to put a wedge in. Although it would stand there and blow off quite happily as soon as we got going pressure fell back to around 160psi and that was with 5 on. I soon changed to a saucer shaped fire and the thing made steam happily and would sit on the redline quite happily, the fire burnt hotter and cleaner, and it would take the Belle set + service (around 9 on) up berwyn bank quite happily.

I always thought the bigger the shovel the more you could fry on them in one go :smt003

 

Spot on, Ade. Unfortunately, my 1957 Lucas shovel is a little too big for a Pannier and I have to use a short Western thingy., or I bang my extremities more than usual. A Lucas is an artist's tool.

 

All Western engines? I wouldn't put a massive wedge in a 57xx for starters...[/quote:2ixcurd8]

Put a massive wedge in a 56/66xx and you'll choke it, every engine likes a different fire..........