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Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by Old Kent Biker, Jan 26, 2016.

  1. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    I would not like to generalize, even if I had any expertise. As an example, I understand that Isle of Wight Railway No. 10 as restored, has around 60 to 70% original body framework whereas No. 21, now being rebuilt, has only about 15% re-useable. Superficially, both vehicles were in a far worse state than your No. 2.
     
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  2. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    Borrowing "Russell" from the W.H.H.R. might be illuminating. If she goes as well as her close (but not that close) Sierra Leone relatives like "85", there would be some ghostly red faces in Leeds.
     
  3. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    Reading @Mark Thompson's post [#2000], I guess another other question would concern the wisdom of subjecting the last surviving (in original condition, at any rate) L&B carriage's 'undergubbins' to the rigors of regular operation (not an issue with the formerly grounded IWR stock, of course). Still, you've got to think a berth in some future L&B museum, where many more would be able to see it, would be a suitably appropriate place to preserve it.
     
  4. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    Howard,

    I think you would guess that I don't entirely buy this argument. Everything that survives into "preservation" will have had major repairs of some sort or other which involves replacement of materials. By all means be careful only to replace what is necessary but don't be excessively precious. People with traction engines, veteran cars or, for that matter, antique clocks would shake their heads in puzzlement if nothing gets done and machinery becomes unusable as a consequence.
     
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  5. blanche1893

    blanche1893 New Member

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    Mention is made of longer trains being double-headed, but what length trains could the original passing loops at stations accommodate including the current loop at Woody Bay?
     
  6. Leaky

    Leaky New Member

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    Are all the carriages they resorted going to stay in White/Red? Would be nice to see a set in Southern Green to shows the railway off in difference eras
     
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  7. Old Kent Biker

    Old Kent Biker Member

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    I understand that No.2's frame was damaged, either in situ or en route to the NRM, and would require considerable restoration or, more likely, replacement to bring the carriage back into use. It will also be considerably cheaper to build a replica than to attempt a restoration.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
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  8. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    No disagreement whatsoever Paul .... however, in the specific case of the L&B, we've got No.15 (currently FR No.14), in it's operational condition to demonstrate precisely the point you make!

    Anyhooo .... if someone actually manages to track Lew to it's South American grave / hideaway, it'd raise the prospect of a display of an original L&B train, in 'as found' condition ..... and if a few of us were to put a fiver on the eventuality, at the odds you'd likely get, it'd probably pay for the whole exercise ... including the shipping! :)
     
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  9. nine elms fan

    nine elms fan Member

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    More chance of finding nessie I think. :rolleyes:
     
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  10. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    Sure. Just to clarify, the frame I referred to to was the carriages timber body frame. I took it as read that the underframe would by now be completely beyond economic repair.
     
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  11. Old Kent Biker

    Old Kent Biker Member

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    Not so - Lew is alive and well, and was steaming at Woody Bay just this weekend! :)[​IMG]
     
  12. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    Most recent odds on that I can find, for a 'discovery this year' were 250/1 (William Hill 2015) :)
    There are a few old film clips on YouTube, but I quite like this (silent) offering from 'WoodyBay', which covers the 1935 - 2013 period:
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...AjABegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw0oy6CCmFsFehjiQQlyXiGG
     
  13. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Part of the furniture

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    How about a 'Locomotive Trials' with Russell & a VofR loco?
     
  14. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    "Russell" is a size smaller than the V of R machines, so she would do well to equal them. Assuming her somewhat different boiler is the equal of the large boilered Sierra Leone type, the limit of her performance would not be steaming capacity or "grunt" but adhesion.

    It is significant to realise that both generations of V of R locomotives represent attempts to "sort out" the L& B design, as, indeed does "Lyd". This says everything really.
     
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  15. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Part of the furniture

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    What was the link between the L&B and Vof R loco's?
     
  16. Old Kent Biker

    Old Kent Biker Member

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    Civil Engineer James Szlumper was heavily involved with the construction of both the L&B and the VoR.

    The origin of the L&B design is unclear (to me, certainly), but I have heard it may have originated from a cancelled order for one of the colonial (African?) railways, designed as tender engines, but then built as tank engines for the L&B. This would have made them cheaper and quicker to procure, and also explain why they were purchased despite being 2-6-2s rather than the 2-4-2 locos better suited to the curves, and as originally specified.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
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  17. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Well-Known Member

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    This business about the L&B locos being colonial rejects is, as far as I can tell, nothing other than some very elaborate extrapolation from an entertaining supposition, for which there is no evidence. The argument seems to be that at about that time loco manufacturors such as MW did build locos for overseas, and these ones were found to be perhaps not ideal for the L&B later, so maybe they were colonial rejects?
    I've heard the Satpura system of the BNR (actually constructed as 2'6'' but planned as 2' gauge) being mentioned as a possible line but again I think it's a lot of inference!

    Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
     
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  18. JMJR1000

    JMJR1000 Member

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    I've heard this argument of the Manning Wardles not being ideal for the railway a lot on this forum, and that's fair enough if so, though is there much point in bringing this fact up at this point? I would have thought Lyd's all in all successful years so far in service overall would have proven the case that a new generation of M.W.s, in line with 'Lyd' as the template, would be useful to the new L&B now. 'Lyd' clearly possesses far better qualities then the originals did, much like how the new Baldwin 'Lyn' has proven itself superior to it's original predecessor.

    Unless you think their new improved modern day forms aren't an improvement enough still?

    At the end of the day I suppose only so much can be done about this issue, for the objective of the railway is to rebuild the L&B as it was in it's (albeit brief) heyday, hence why although not considered the most ideal by some the intent is to build new Manning Wardles to go alongside already built 'Lyn'.

    Of course there are those that argue the railway might need more motive power then just the original 5, and in which case might have to consider building another 'Lyn's or 'Lyd's so to speak, although I reckon if you really need more then the 5 it makes more sense to bring in alternative locomotives to mix things a little. But that's just me, and this debate in itself is entirely another discussion really.

    (Edit: Should have put 5 instead of 4... Forgot Exe... always forget Exe for some reason. :oops:)
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
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  19. ross

    ross Member

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    For a re-createed L&B, the Manning-Wardles are ideal, simply because (despite Lyn being my favourite) the Manning-Wardles are the L&B. They are a bit funny looking, but of their time. They were under-powered, but a few tricks have been learned in the past 120 years. Not very many steam railways need more than 5 locomotives, and if there was a spare boiler, spare set of frames, cylinders,wheels etc...overhauls could be pretty slick.
    If folks want anything other than Manning-Wardles(and a Baldwin), then they want something other than the Lynton and Barnstaple. Why not sort out some exciting locomotives, comfortable carriages. Perhaps an easier route. With less hostile neighbours....Maybe closer to London so you be sure of more visitors....
    Or try and bring back a lost treasure as authentically as possible
     
  20. JMJR1000

    JMJR1000 Member

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    Wholeheartedly agree with you there, the biggest attraction for me is the railway's unique identity, you just couldn't have the L&B without Manning-Wardles and a Baldwin. Just as you couldn't have the VoR without their distinct copper capped trio, or the Ffestiniog Railway without the Small Englands like Prince and Palmerston.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019

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