If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by Old Kent Biker, Jan 26, 2016.

  1. Kingscross

    Kingscross Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    371
    Likes Received:
    243
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    South West
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Likewise, I donated to Bratton Fleming with a couple of clicks, but am unlikely to set up a BACS transfer or buy shares.
     
  2. Snail368

    Snail368 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2013
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    10
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Invasive weed control and eradication
    Location:
    Daventry, Northamptonshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I am not an accountant, but understand the issues of donations (via just Giving) and purchase of shares when referring this to a limited company. How about having a Just Giving site, where people could give money on the understanding that the monies were to be used to buy shares in Exmoor Associates in the name of the L&B Trust? Just a thought and I don't know if this is doable or not.
     
    andrewshimmin likes this.
  3. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,635
    Likes Received:
    4,793
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    West Country
    I would agree that setting up a new payment mandate under BACS is becoming an increasingly complicated and long-winded process. However, if you are doing it for an organisation to whom you may wish to donate again on subsequent occasions, then once done it is done and can be used with ease on future occasions. With respect to other posters, I do find it strange that a temporary one-off 'inconvenience' in the donation process is apparently bad enough to offset the benefits that the railway will gain if they persevere.
     
  4. Breva

    Breva Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    1,638
    Likes Received:
    2,646
    Location:
    Gloucestershire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    It all depends on just how much you want the project to succeed. I set up a payee once in my bank account, and have made 5 simple payments since then. It's all you need to do to buy more shares, no further documents.

    It's true that you now have two stage authentification, but I am glad that they are doing this. I recently saw a crime programme about a murderer in the US who had put all his misdeeds into a Word document that he protected with a password. The FBI was eventually able to access the document by putting the password search into a computer programme that just whirred away and tried one password after another. Finally it got there. That made me sit up! Several of my payment options have just a password..... I have now added the second, text message, stage to them.

    I think also some of us on here attribute too much sophistication to EA. It's not the Bluebell, or the SVR, with years of experience. It's just a bunch of guys who thought they'd do something to get back the trackbed. They can't do it personally, so they formed a company. Anyone can join, its a community funding. It will take many years, but they are steadily successful.

    Here's another picture of the potential acquisition:

    Trackbed Nov 2020 (11).jpg
    (Picture used with permission)
     
  5. Penrhynfan

    Penrhynfan New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2013
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    52
    Gender:
    Male
    The EA have lost my donation as well. I was about to make an "impulse purchase" of a donation but the procedure put me off. Blame "Covid Lockdown Brain Fever" if you like but, given the choice of EA's system or yet another few quid to another railway with a simple system, the EA lost out.

    Come on EA, something less 5% (or whatever) is better than 100% of nothing.
     
  6. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2017
    Messages:
    759
    Likes Received:
    1,595
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    E sussex
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Right.
    Well, in the light of some these replies, I've just been spurred into making a BACS payment tonight, faff or not, to help the shortfall. We need this trackbed.
     
    andrewshimmin and 2392 like this.
  7. Breva

    Breva Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    1,638
    Likes Received:
    2,646
    Location:
    Gloucestershire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Thank you, Mark :)
     
    Mark Thompson and 2392 like this.
  8. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2018
    Messages:
    1,172
    Likes Received:
    2,017
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leicestershire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Well I did donate on the "Just Giving" BF purchase, then a bit more via cheque and now set up a BACS. The ease of "one click" has led into a greater involvement, so there are benefits for all the different methods.......but let's be pleased that progress towards a greater L&B "awakening" is being maintained.
     
    2392 likes this.
  9. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,635
    Likes Received:
    4,793
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    West Country
    Should this have a "pedestrian not included" warning ? :)
     
  10. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    5,577
    Likes Received:
    3,247
    They do seem to be missing a trick by restricting the methods of contributing. But surely the biggest trick they are missing is not being a charity, or having an associated one, that can benefit from Gift Aid.
     
    MartinBall, Axe +1, mgp and 1 other person like this.
  11. Mr Valentine

    Mr Valentine Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2018
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    535
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Titfield
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Oh dear, perhaps not the best attitude to take. Person A's ten quid isn't worth more than person B's ten quid, simply because Person A jumped through more hoops to donate it.

    I realise there may be issues regarding donations to a limited company, but until something is worked out you are going to be restricting your income, and no amount of long-winded explanations, distractions, or shaming on an internet forum is going to change that. Think of all the people put off by the process who don't read this forum, whose spur-of-the-moment donations have been lost. It does depress me a bit that this conversation is even having to be had.

    With the Bratton appeal, EA's modus operandi did seem to show up some of its limitations. While I can understand that having a closed management is of benefit given the sensitive nature of what EA are trying to do, it nonetheless can become counter-productive if it restricts your skill-base. I do feel that EA need to have a review of things, a point I seem to recall making on this thread before.

    Anyway on a more positive note, I shall try and send some more pennies as soon as pay-day arrives.
     
  12. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    20,653
    Likes Received:
    37,608
    Location:
    215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Agreed. Speaking personally, for the right cause I would donate by BACS though removing barriers to donation is inherently a good thing.

    But - for me, a donation is a donation. On the one hand, when making a donation I explicitly don’t want to then end up with shares. But I explicitly do want to see that the value of my donation has been maximised by recovery of Gift Aid. So not having a charitable option is a big disincentive for me, even though this is one railway project that in other ways I would really like to see succeed.

    Others may have different motivations of course, which is fine. But for me I’d want to see the option to donate without buying shares and with recovery of Gift Aid.

    Tom
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
  13. Breva

    Breva Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    1,638
    Likes Received:
    2,646
    Location:
    Gloucestershire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Could they set up a charity, given that this is pretty much a pure property play? Is there not a risk that the Charity Commission / HMRC are going to say 'we're not going to help you, just so that you can buy land'? Or am I wrong there?
     
  14. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    20,653
    Likes Received:
    37,608
    Location:
    215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    The National Trust is a land-owning charity so I am not sure what the barrier would be? If you are acquiring the land with the long-term purpose of re-instating a heritage railway as a heritage / educational experience, is it a problem if the freehold of the land of is owned by a charity?

    In other words I don't see this as a pure property play; it is a long-term enabler of re-instating a heritage railway.

    Tom
     
  15. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,635
    Likes Received:
    4,793
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    West Country
    Purely as a guess, but I would suspect that the 'education benefit' to be gained from the land will in most cases accrue only when the ownership has transferred from EA to the L&BRT. In the meantime the EA may well be viewed simply as a 'property holding' body which provides no public benefit as such.
     
  16. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    9,412
    Likes Received:
    14,901
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I don't know if this helps, but classing it as "Education" is no longer the only option (and I agree it's difficult to see how that fits), more recently "Heritage" has been defined as a purpose for a charity to exist.
     
  17. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    20,653
    Likes Received:
    37,608
    Location:
    215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Is there a reason why there is a separate organisation to do the land purchase? Why not do it as a ring-fenced fund within the L&BRT if they are in any case going to end up as the ultimate beneficiary?

    Tom
     
  18. Mr Valentine

    Mr Valentine Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2018
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    535
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Titfield
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
  19. 35B

    35B Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    15,470
    Likes Received:
    12,458
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I read it slightly as a case of "we are where we are", as the L&B family has evolved strategies to achieve the seemingly impossible.

    While I am always keen to make my donations in as tax efficient a way as possible, I do ultimately look at the cause rather than the method of giving. That means that I would consider giving to a cause set up as a limited company, even if I didn't want to become a shareholder, but would myself never be a fan of setting up in that way at the outset. The choice of BACS vs other ways of making donations is an interesting dilemma - my experience of church donation arrangements is that the costs of signing up with someone that can aggregate donations is often disproportionate if only occasional ad-hoc donations are expected.

    My concern, given the endless discussions about the L&B's nearest preservation neighbour, hints of friction in the Loughborough area, and even occasional comments on L&B threads, is that bringing the linked organisations together will be more demanding than would be ideal, and may undermine the ultimate goals. I believe, as an outsider, that the risk of this is low, but the opportunity for friction does concern me.
     
    MellishR and Jamessquared like this.
  20. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2017
    Messages:
    759
    Likes Received:
    1,595
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    E sussex
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I always understood that the reason for the 2 separate bodies was because the responsibility for land acquisition across the country entire 19.5 miles of the L&B would be too onerous a burden, bearing in mind that acquired land would also require upkeep, thus diluting available funds and labour.
    The responsibility seems to be that the Trust are responsible for land from Blackmoor northwards, and EA fir anything south of there.
    2 years ago EA transferred 2 parcels of land to Trust ownership, to enable reconstruction between Blackmoor and Wistlandpound to begin.
    In the meantime, EA can maintain stewardship of their holdings south of there, and pursue new purchases without over-extending the Trusts liabilities in any way.
    Whilst nothing is ever perfect, this arrangement seems to have worked very well up to now.
     
    RailWest, SID125, 30854 and 4 others like this.

Share This Page