Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

Not AFAIK, certainly - as a member - I've not seen this material before, although I confess that I do have prior knowledge of the Parracombe bit, having been involved with design work for possible signalling arrangements

The turntable of course will simply be a rather posh sector plate, a bit like (say) Ventnor or Bembridge.

 

The information on the website is a lot more detailed that was was in the Magazine.

 

Interesting proposal, and gratifying to see the Pilton turntable actually put to practical use, although surely this arrangement would still have to be operated as a one- engine-in- steam long siding, much as the present line, so how would additional signalling be necessary at this stage?

 

The new proposed operation at Parracombe (if successful) would effectively relocate passenger train operation from Killington Lane to Parracombe. Thus "one train in steam" operation will continue as it is now at KL, and the single point operated by either the train Guard or Fireman.

Presumably, both the L&B Guard and Fireman will together use their joint muscle power to rotate the loco on the turntable.

 

Quite surprised to see these change of plans, though I would say the changes seem very much for the better to me. Rebuilding the whole line in one go all the way to Blackmoor before trains could run on the extension always seemed a bit overambitious and restricted to me, after all no one can guarantee the railway will be able to get together the finances required to rebuild this whole stretch in one go and in swift succession. Far better to have it laid out in more manageable stages as these changes to the plans show.

Certainly at the very least, it should allow us all to enjoy a new more lengthy stretch of railway for L&B to run on hopefully sooner rather then later, while the rest of the work presses on with the Blackmoor site and all the facilities required before operations can move over to the new home base proper.

I am curious though, I thought there were strict conditions put in place before that trains could not terminate at Parracombe, which was probably why the L&B opted to build the whole stretch to Blackmoor in one go in the first place, as they couldn't run trains on the new stretch at all otherwise. Has something changed with the authorities involved to now be okay with trains stopping and Parracombe? Perhaps a new agreement that Parracombe can now be used as a terminus station, BUT only for a strict time limit.

Interesting too the usage of the turntable, curious as to why a standard head-shunt would not suffice? That was the original plan, at least in the form of a passing loop anyway, which I'm assuming is what will be installed eventually there anyway once trains can run on to Blackmoor.

 

I believe it is because we do not currently own the entire length of land to allow for a headshunt at Parracombe (the next parcel of land held by objectors to the railway). A turntable would allow the engine to run round within the current owned land.

 

It would seem this change of heart by the G&G [great and the good] - who previously seemed against short extensions - might be because it has become clear that the objectors are never going to alter their views and maybe the likelihood of powers to overcome this objection [not allowed to mention what these might be...] do not look like they'd be granted. If this is the case, then this extension to Parracombe may be all that's likely to come about for decades. Perhaps a Plan B is in order? Lynton to Parracombe; Blackmoor to Bratton F; or BF to Chelfham...?

 

Its not quite like that. The rationale for these proposals is principally to secure the existing planning permissions in perpetuity. As it stood, these permissions would have expired next year, if works had not been started by that date. As the TWAO process is immensely cumbersome and time consuming, it was increasingly obvious that this process would not have been concluded by said date, hence the need to begin works on a section which did not require a TWAO in order to be implemented. Once the TWAO has finally been obtained, then works on the remainder of the proposed phase 2a can proceed, dependant on current planning conditions being met.
I hope that makes sense, it does get a little convoluted.
The RVR has just made a similar amendment, which was conditionally granted, for almost exactly the same reason.

 

Thanks for the clarification. Nevertheless, my point about a Plan B still stands, I think, just in case unmentionable powers do not come the way of the L&B. What do people think would be the best route for a Plan B (bearing in mind all but the first would mean the temporary mothballing of the current line)? Lynton to WB/Parracombe; Blackmoor to Bratton F; or BF to Chelfham?

 

'Signalling' does not necessarily mean 'fixed signals' It also includes the method (or absence) of block working, control of points etc. For example, how do you ensure that an Up train does not leave Woody Bay and approach Parracombe unless the turntable is proved to be set and locked for the platform road - there won't be much of an overlap to avoid an 'oops, nasty' into the pit! Likewise, there is more than one way to control the pointwork + FPL and it is possible that PE might be used to test options for Whistlandpound.

 

Deleted . Posted in error

 

I'm not sure how mothballing the line would work with planning permissions/SMS/volunteers. I also don't think you could get enough volunteers to run 2 operations.
However just to indulge your idea:
1. Lynton-WB - expensive civil works and new station at Lynton end.
2. Blackmoor - BF - Blackmoor not in railway ownership and BF is 1) rented on a 3 year lease 2) fairly isolated, no car parking and on a narrow road (unlikely to get PP to allow passengers to board/leave)
3. BF - Chelfham - both stations have issues with being fairly isolated/no car parking/on a narrow road (unlikely to get PP to allow passengers to board/leave)

 

At present no. The existing planning permissions has a large number of conditions attached to it including that the Railway must have all the land and required funds before progressing to Blackmoor Gate.
The railway is now applying for a section 73 application which would if successful allow it to progress with previous conditions removed ie to Parracombe only as a temporary terminus.
The Railway is now entering the consultation for this and the images on the website are from the presentation that was made at Woody Bay last weekend.
As has been mentioned elsewhere the Railway needs to start works by next year when permission lapses. This is one way to get things started.

 

Hopefully the S73 application will be successful which will mean that work can commence on the line. Construction of the Bridges will take some time. The TWAO can proceed in parallel with this. There are similarities with the RVR but L and B are not proposing a level Crossing over a Major road or crossing a flood plain so the process may be quicker. Who knows what the situation will be by the time rails are laid to Parracombe.

 

Got it! Yes, of course the sector plate will create a unique potential hazard which would have to be fail-safed.

 

Which, of course, not all of us were able to attend. The information now on the website is much more detailed than the article in the latest Magazine, which only made a very passing reference to the possibility of extending initially just to Parracombe, and I am a little surprised that it has appeared in the public domain without previously having been posted in the members-only area (where the last updated was 11th Jan).

 

I did take a good look at the turntable, at the September gala. I wonder how much of it is salvageable? Still, let's hope we get the S73 approved and we can make a start!

 

Unusual, but not by any means unique. In terms of hazard and likely mitigations, it's probably quite similar to the traverser going in at Corris.

Going a lot further back, if you look up the history of High Street Kensington station on London Underground, what is now platform 4 was originally just a run-round road and the walkway to it, behind the buffer stops, goes across the mouth of a now disused tunnel stub. In the gloom there, there was originally a sector table. The train would arrive at platform 3, the loco would shuffle off into the darkness, rotate slightly on the sector table and then run round. A sector table was used to avoid the need to make the tunnel any longer. Unfortunately I can't find a photo online, though I am sure I've seen one somewhere, perhaps in a book.

Abroad, but still current, there is the upper portion of the Oberweißbacher Bergbahn which has a turntable in the middle of the running line with passenger trains going over it!
(Wikipedia has a good photo here.)

 

Like you I am surprised that we have not seen this in the member's only area.

 

I would suggest that although it is 'nice' to keep the members up to date with what is intended, it is actually more important that the public consultation should take place, as it has now done.
We must not detract from what the L&B Trust are now aiming to do - let us all put our weight behind the planning application when it gets submitted!
Mike