Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

We once had one for 10 years. When permission was finally issued (it had been waiting over 9 years for a Section 106 Agreement to be signed) most of the neighbours were newcomers who knew nothing of it. Quite a row ensued.

 

An announcement of more land just purchased: http://www.lynton-rail.co.uk/story/more-lb-trackbed-purchased

 

... but bear in mind, the L&B application(s) are by far the largest ENPA have ever had to decide on. Plus, there has been a turnover of ENPA staff and members, such that much of the information they have gathered over the years needs to be reappraised by the incomers. "unfit for purpose" seems a little harsh.

They are taking longer than any of us would like, I'm sure, but better they take their time and due diligence over deciding to accept our applications, rather than making a snap decision to reject them?

Patience, my friend, is a virtue.

 

The UK Planning portal ( https://www.planningportal.co.uk ) states:

Most planning applications are decided within eight weeks, unless they are unusually large or complex, in which case the time limit is extended to 13 weeks.

The authority should be able to give you an idea about the likely timetable. If it cannot decide your application within eight weeks, it should obtain your written consent to extend the period. ​

I do know there have been ongoing discussions between the ENPA officers and L&BR Trustees throughout the process - over several years in fact. Although I'm not party to any of these discussions, I am confident that the process is being handled appropriately, even if uncomfortably slowly...

 

I fully concur with Martyn's sentiments [post #488]. The key word above is Most. In the overwhelming majority of cases, planning applications will be for a dormer window here, a conservatory there, redesignating a redundant farm building for domestic use etc. etc. most of which probably are indeed resolved within eight weeks.

Keep in mind that this is a National Park, therefore anything much more contentious than changing the ringtone on your phone will, likely as not, require some form of authorisation.

If you want more proof that the L&B plans represent a complex set of conditions, look no further than our very own Rother Valley Railway thread, then consider how fortunate are the folks in Devon, that the main opposition seems to originate with one lady with a bee in her bonnet, whilst the stalwarts at Southwold have the full wrath of the East Suffolk Flat Earth Society to contend with!!

Let's do our bit for the L&B by taking each opportunity presented to make appropriate submissions, perhaps to engage the ongoing debate in local media and (of course) when & where possible, providing financial support.

Now, about that 'can't get past Pilton' issue.... Has anyone got a spare TBM and a 'Taw sized' (the river, not the loco) bridge kicking about?

 

Deleted (duplicated)

 

I recently read somewhere that there was a proposal to build a second down stream bridge for a light railway/tramway to run from Barnstaple to Braunton and finally go on to ilfracombe at some stage, but it was also going to be part of a new tramway which would link in time with Bideford, it might be wishful thinking at the moment but North Devon is still a growing population wise with a much older generation. whether or not this happen only time will tell, but it would be fun to think in terms of extensions to the old L&BR

 

This sort of opportunity purchase is very much the way to do it. Buy a large area of agricultural land through which the railway ran, keep sufficient for the railway construction and operation and at an appropriate time sell off the remainder preferably with a covenant requiring the purchaser not to impede the construction or operation of the railway.

 

My experience is that the longer and more involved are negotiations with the Planning Authority the more certain it is that such Authority gets into a position where it cannot refuse the application. Not in principle anyway, although refusals which focus on specifics which can be overcome could be encountered. I've done this myself; recommended applications for refusal on carefully-defined grounds which will, when addressed, prevent the elected members coming up with daft ones of their own.

 

I suppose it also opens up the possibility of land swaps with the next farmer up or down the line, if someone is objecting to the loss of part or all of a field and the impact of same on their business. (I'm guessing though, I have no knowledge whatsoever of who owns the L&B trackbed other than the L&B/EA bits on their interactive map, nor which owners are supportive and which aren't.)

 

Pure W.I.B.N. again I am afraid

Yet more W.I.B.N.

Gentlemen, you have got a lot of money to raise and work to do first before the present proposals are anything more than W.I.B.N. themselves. Suggest you put any more flights of fancy away for the next few years.

Repeat, work and money.

PH

 

A tad trigger-happy with your favourite FLA Paul? I'd rather hoped the tone of my post would've given a fair indication that my tongue was (for the time being) firmly in my cheek. That said, the WHR happened a LOT faster than pretty much anyone expected.

In the longer term, I certainly wouldn't bet against the L&B having cross-platform interchange, but equally, wouldn't bet on it, if only because I'll be wormfood long before it happens!!

 

That sounds a bit like a paraphrase of someone saying "but I was only joking" when they were not joking at all.

PH

 

To be honest once all the planning issues are out of the way for Blackmoor to Woody Bay have been achieved then building the rest of the railway will be down to raising lots of money, from what I can recall from a few years ago the plan to rebuild the railway from Woody Bay back to Lynton is or has been done in parallel with the current planning application, once Blackmoor - Woody Bay is up and running going from Woody Bay to Lynton should be a walk in the park compared to what is happening now.

The long term problem will be one of getting people to help run the longer railway.

 

Maybe, then again, maybe not.

 

It will be interesting to see how the balance between re-created heritage and purely practical considerations (traffic reduction, direct & indirect value to local economy etc.) pans out. Right now, there are too many unknowns to base much more than educated guesses on. If the number of bums/seat/mile stays constant or increases with the next phases of extension, it would obviously make life easier in terms of revenue and the wider case for full line reinstatement. That's going to be quite a challenge across the board, so if your views on the (comparative!) easing of restrictive planning burden hold good, there'll still be plenty to keep everyone occupied!

 

Alas, more W.I.B.N. I fear. Romanticism about tourist railways fulfilling some form of transport function just leads to excessive route mileage. A revived L. & B. will prosper or otherwise according to its performance as a tourist attraction. As a public transport provider, the original line was defeated by road commercial vehicles 1930 style.

PH

 

I half agree with you Paul. In this instance however, I'd point out that there's a real desire on the part of authorities to reduce the road traffic burden on the tourist honeypots of Lynton & Lynmouth. This is a major factor which simply didn't exist to any significant degree on the original line.

Of course, whether or not some 'park and ride' function becomes a reality will depend on how economically realistic it can be. I'd fully accept that heritage style operations would find it difficult (if not impossible) to make some such a practical proposition. We can all cite cases where something similar has been proposed and (even with diesel services) subsequently died a quiet death (West Someset, Paignton, Wensleydale), but the twin villages share more in common with Clovelly (and arguably with Swanage) than any of those locations.

I suspect that in any event, the idea of running regular tourist services over even half the length of the original line with purely compartment stock (with no bogs!) may prove challenging. The IMR & VoR can justifiably point to the historic nature of their locos and carriages, though even there, modifications have been made to IMR saloon stock, and the VoR seems to be indulging even the lower orders with the luxury of padded seats! Whilst beautifuly re-created L&B stock is an extremely welcome sight, and will always have a place on the line, will it be suitable for front-line 21st century tourist requirements?

Whether other than die-hard gricers and photographers prefer the 'authentic experience', or merely wish to have a scenic train ride behind a steam loco remains to be seen. We all well know that this issue has led to a differnet ethos for 'commercial heritage' operations on the FR/WHR, even so, note that it shares with the definitely authentic VoR a very practical approach to timetabling, according to market conditions. A resuscitated L&B couldn't be expected to do differently.

Whether talking Blackmoor Gate to Lynton, or whole line, whilst lessons can and should be learned from precedent, the L&B is in a unique situation, and knowledge gained elsewhere will need to be adapted in equally unique ways.

Note that I'm emphatically NOT suggesting the L&B can perform the sort of everyday transport function that has eluded the rest of the heritage sector, but to dismiss out of hand the opportunities presented by ENPA policy regarding road traffic really would be looking a gift horse in the mouth. I see less WIBN in that than in the suggestion, just a couple of decades ago, that there was any prospect of even a mile of restored L&B.

 

Swanage works as a park and ride because the terminus is right in the middle of town whereas at Lynton/Lynmouth it most certainly is not! Public authorities can be as afflicted by W.I.B.N. wishful thinking as any gricer and I fear an example of this is, alas, the main line connection proposed for Wareham. Locals wanting to shop at Wareham used the bus rather than the train because of the distance and the change in levels between the station and the town.

A reasonably authentic reconstruction of part of the L &B is possible if the route and journey time are kept to a sensible length.

PH

 

The whole of the steam preservation movement has its roots deeply set in and is in fact an abject lesson in W.I.B.N. Certainly two steps forward, one step back at times, but that's most things in life hey? We would all be reading about steam trains in books but thanks to W.I.B.N you can go and smell them. W.I.B.N is the spark that sets the fire a blaze.

Stop stealing the sunshine!

(Strapping myself in for yet another ride on the footplate with captain negative pants).