Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

Sorry Toby, logistically and through sheer restraints of man power, I doubt a shift could be done in a winter closed season.

Whatever we do has to be extended from Woody Bay now, the time for deciding "where to start" is long gone, but it doesn't stop other things being done in parallel.

As I said above, the problem isn't so much that there has been any failures, it's more to do with some quite significant successes especially in the past few years such as the acquisition of Parracombe Halt, Bratton Fleming, various bits of isolated trackbed, OSHI, the restoration at Snapper and Chelfham etc.

With these successes comes a multitude of options.

For the Trust, and the CIC, it makes sense to try and extend from WB, any move North is immediately hit with a multimillion pound engineering problem to cross the A39. CFL presents a move South, albeit a small move, and getting OSHI and down to WLPD advances the progress there even if it is a small engine run by diesel or other means and say two sympathetically made carriages in the spirit and look of the L&B to run that bit on occasion, maybe weekends only. In parralel to this you work on the problem of in between, and I would suggest that starts with the ceasation of some of the comments seen at times against the locals online.

EA and YVT have ideas in the south and have their own set of challenges.

One thing I have big reservations on, and many others I have now spoken to, is the permissive footpath ideas. We really must be careful what we do, otherwise there will be problems ahead, I pretty much guarantee it.

In truth everyone probably has some good ideas, and in other parts the ideas fall short. There is no ideal strategy now as so much has been acquired and in various locations, with so many ideas pulling in different directions that it's not easy to get a joined up strategy. What ever strategy is adopted, some won't like it.

 

There’s much that’s important in this post. There are lots of ideas flying round, and it would be easy to waste what we have.

However, I dislike the use of “can’t”. It closes off thinking and makes it harder to examine the real pros and cons of what is being considered.

Strategic decisions need to be made, not stumbled into. And that means properly considering the choices to work out the right combination.


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Here is an idea. Why not leave Woody Bay as a self contained operation for now and then work out what we can do as a minimum at Blackmoor. Would it be worth setting up a new Lynbarn style operation* at Blackmoor? while we raise the money to do something more permanent?

* would it pay us to employ one person to operate this set up at Blackmoor since it would not be steam driven.

 

Tbh, if you are going to clear the trackbed etc might as well lay the track to take what's at Woody Bay, and if you are doing that, creating rolling stock fairly cheaply and sympathetic to the format of the L&B isn't that hard to do.

I think there would be more enthusiasm from volunteers etc if we are doing things which ultimately help towards the end goal.

Getting volunteers is a problem, and I think always will be, it's not something unique to us, it's a problem seen right across the volunteer/charity sector.

This is where we need the involvement of youth which I have said for years, we need to attract younger people to get involved.

All in good time though, in organising something like that again pulls on staff and volunteer time.

 

When the old Lynbarn was set up we didn't have Woody Bay to contend with. But since we gave it to the farm they have I think employed one person to drive the trains, for the long term I agree we need to have the L&BR look but I am thinking we need to do this as cheap as we possible can get away with and if need by employ someone as part of the Blackmoor Staff.

The idea is that we don't compete with the Woody Bay train ride experience for now, but make it more of a kiddies train ride attraction in association to the pub. It might be an idea to clear the trackbed from Blackmoor to Wistlandpound and lay the right PW material to a point close to where the loop will start and the public can see what the plan is. Hopefully it will encourage them to then come up to Woody Bay after the pub lunch.

It is not a fool proof plan, but I hope it can give you a sense of what I have in mind. For what it is worth, I think there is still some extra land that would be useful for us to have at Blackmoor, as it would still be cheaper to get it now than before the railway arrives at Blackmoor.

 

And in doing that you play straight into the hands of those who made comments in the public consultation stages of the planning previously of Disneyfication and the appearance of a theme park.

If its possible to do relatively cheaply and within the style of the L&B with full size 2' track laid in ready for later proper heritage trains, and with a huge nod to the heritage in look and style, why antagonise by making it like a kiddies fair ground ride?

We are the L&B, we can do better than that.

 

It is just an idea to help reduce the debt we have there.

 

I agree with you 100%. We are trying to (re)build a heritage steam railway, recreating the L&B. Anything that diverts from that is a distraction from the overall goal... And once you have a Disney kiddies playground, it's difficult to get rid of it. But you could, of course, lay proper 2ft gauge track through blackmoor, display some carriages etc.

 

Maybe that's best done by developing the business at OSHI. selling more food or selling higher value food. By becoming a really high quality eating and drinking establishment that people aspire to visit.
Ian

 

I suppose that's one way of driving off the customers. "Lets go posh and put up posh prices so more oiks will want to come"?... Why not just turn it into a gastro pub to stop all those scruffy people coming who only want a nice meal at a reasonable price in a traditional pub/diner as part of their day out/holiday?
Go posh and bump up the prices if you must but it you haven't got enough rich city types living locally or visiting regularly (second/holiday homes anyone?) who want that sort of thing and don't care about the prices you are not going to get the punters in. And once you have a reputation for high prices...

 

I went in OSHI last Monday to catch up with Mark. It's good quality food at competitive prices.
You don't risk serving mundane or bad food in the SW. It's not gastro, just damn good food cooked and served well.

 

The last time I used the OSHI it was good wholesome food, so if you want high end food then you have other pubs such as the Black Venus I think, The OSHI has been a family pub for years and the locals use a lot which gives you some idea of the sort of market you are dealing with.

The last owners had a petting farm for kids, so all I am saying is we need to look at what people want and are attracted to come in.

We have to remember that this a commercial business and it is not currently the railway, so it has to make money to pay the debt off. You all know my views on this, but if we want to keep it and for it to also be successful we are going to have to think of things that may not sit well with the image of a heritage railway at present.

We have more than enough on our plate at present and as long as it is legal and family friendly plus generates the money at Blackmoor then we need to consider it, the alternative is to ask everyone on here to cough up a couple of grand each.

 

A winter would be more than enough with sufficient preparation and planning to move from WB as the workshop. In fact you could do it considerably faster if you wanted to.

It is very clear that we should not constrain ourselves to having to extend from WB just because it is there. As has been debated at length. What we need if. We are not to waste more time and money is a full and proper consideration of all the pros and cons of various options.

CFL makes no sense whatever. It will not increase visitors, it will mean the loss of the KL runaround. It will be costly to deliver, and make any future further extension more costly because of the need to level and then “de”level the site. It will antagonise local opposition.

Dismissing EA/YVT as “they can do their own thing” is kicking a very important can into weeds.
If we want to see this railway EVER be restored, and I mean EVER, then the time has come to build an organisation capable of actually achieving the aim, which we do not have at present. THAT is the immediate strategic need. That structure can then work out the what the how and the when.

 

Sorry, don't agree, and especially things which could jeopardise railway activities later. Make the pub a community hub, a welcoming place for the locals in the winter with lots of events raising cash for local projects, bingo, whist, dominoes, skittles, darts, quiz nights etc, somewhere for them to meet and have a good time, which they probably don't get the chance to have during the high tourist season because they are rushed off their feet, and the pub will do well.

 

IMHO there is the problem with 'Option C' in a nutshell (almost). The only benefit to be gained would be the completion for Bridge 65 within the timescale for DCC take-over and even that begins to look 'at risk' now if it is not addressed separately as a matter of some urgency. Sadly the Board seem to be set in their (non-transparent) ways.....:-(

 

I hope people will forgive me if I have got the facts wrong, but am I right in saying:

there is public access at KL so people can leave (eg wander down to Parracombe) or rejoin trains there

there are no public rights of way at CFL and if the line is extended beyond KL then the current facilities
have to be removed - so in practical terms passengers have to stay put till back at WB

which makes we wonder if the “proposition” for passengers, especially if this arrangement has to stay in place for some time, has been fully thought through. Any thoughts on this appreciated.

 

I think the guys who would actually have to do this move could disagree, unless you are looking to get an army of volunteers from somewhere?

Oh and don't forget the land husbandry that still needs doing, the maintenance, the planning for the next year, Charlie Wytock, V23, next carriage overhaul and so on. On top of this you would need another load of bodies to prepare wherever the move is to.

I dare say some of the volunteers look forward to winter for a break after hours and hours on their feet welcoming visitors in all weathers (last Thursday was filthy in the afternoon, a real storm rain for quite some time but the trains still run the staff are still there), up and down the platform, driving the engines, in the shop, providing tea and cakes as well as day to day running maintenance and repairs.

As for an organisation which brings it all together, good luck with that.

Tbh, if you actually go to Woody Bay and speak with everyone, there is more togetherness between us all than is perhaps portrayed online. I talk with some great friends in EA, I talk to L&B guys who are also friends, we sit and share tea, or a pint, and we discuss.

We all take interest in what each of the groups are doing, often help comes from one way or the other eg as at Chelfham, we all scratch our heads at trying to figure out the best way forward and all the options have been looked at and discussed over and over again.

Its not so much as which is the best option, but which is the easiest to do with the resources and manpower we have at our disposal.

 

As far as I know the number of people who actually alight at KL and walk from there is relatively few, something like a hand full per week. It's not as big a deal as many are making out with a vast majority passengers returning on the same train.

Whether access can be made at CFL by foot only I don't know, it's probably not that hard to do and with very minimal impact to anyone nearby.

 

And there we have both the challenge and the opportunity.

The challenge is in how to manage change if it's required. That will be hard work, and will involve effort that some may say is wasted. But change can be done.

The opportunity is that no one sensible doubts that most people, most of the time, get on and want the best for the L&B.