Machine Gunning Pros and Cons

I use a tripod if i'm alone,or my dad does it if hes about. You will notice that on my vids i zoom out early,this is because my vids are mainly intended as a record of what i've seen,i'm more interested in getting a good photo.

As for the comment about the camera noise,i can't turn the shutter noise of my camera off as it is a 40D,my mic on my video camera is quite good,which means it picks the sound up,even if i'm about 10ft away!

 

Sometimes known as "spray and pray". ray:

 

Think I wrote the manual for that :sad:

 

Interesting thread this. Personally, I tend to fire only one or two photos of a train passing by at speed - especially the main line stuff where the speed of approach is so much greater. I try to compose my shots as carefully as possible and then fire the shutter when the train is exactly where I want it. My aim really is to maximise the camera sensor, and so capturing a full-frame image is much more preferable than having to crop into a captured image which wasn't so well composed.

Pan shots are different though: there is always an element of risk when panning subjects, especially with regards to the firing of the shutter causing you to 'drop' the camera slightly. This effectively ruins the shot because any downward movement will cause unwanted blur on the subject. Therefore I use the multi shoot function and hold the shutter on as the subject passes. As such the critical couple of images fired during the middle of the sequence should stand more chance of being successful. That said, my efforts are still very hit and miss!

Perhaps this is rather sadistic pleasure, but I always enjoyed the discipline of shooting 35mm slides, where exposure and framing had to be spot on. There were no 'get out of jail free' cards and you really had to work damn hard to get 'the' shot.

 

Matt, if you can do shots like that while in panic mode then the best advice that can be offered is to continue panicking!

Regards

 

Thanks for the complements chaps. Orion, I can certainly do more panicking! I've also remembered the video from that occasion and it serves as a perfect example of Machine Gunning, I start off being fairly sensible then just hold the button down.
[video=youtube;SD6cWJVF8Ic]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD6cWJVF8Ic[/video]

 

Around forty years or so ago, there was an article in 'Amateur Photographer' on the topic of panning. Basically the advice ran like this:-

1. Always pre-plan your shot. Know where during the panning process you're going to press the shutter button and point your feet at that point. This ensures that you have a level horizon to your shot.
2. Hold the camera with your left hand underneath the camera or lens and the right hand positioned ready to press the button. This will ensure that the camera isn't depressed when the shutter button is pressed.
3. Continue to pan even after you have pressed the shutter. One of the problems that people have with panning is that the shot is blurred even when they have panned. This is because they stopped panning a fraction before they press the shutter. If you continue to pan in a nice easy motion before, during and after the shutter is activated you can stop this from happening.

Now for some of my advice! As a subject, the railway train is long and its length may exceed the depth of field that is available to you because of the available light not being too great. Best to focus on the front of the train. Another issue is the 'angles of velocity' one. The train is coming to you in a straight line but your camera, because you are panning, is moving in a circular motion and not necessarily in the same plane as the train; ie the train is running at an angle below you while you are panning. Again the greatest possible depth of field can help.

In my experience railways, as action shots, are much more difficult than other action subject. Aeroplanes and cars are dead easy in comparision!

Regards

 

I've thought of a few fairly recent examples to illustrate my use of machine gunning and how I find it enhances my photography.

The first was of the K4 on Rannoch Moor last October. The sun was right on the edge of a cloud and the train was only lit for a short period of time on it's approach. I managed two shots where the loco and train were acceptably lit, both fired earlier than I'd considered 'optimum' in my pre-planned composition. If I'd been shooting on my film camera I'd have fired the shutter at the 'optimum' position, the loco would've been in shade and essentially I'd have come away with nothing. In the end it produced a more spacious composition that I could always crop a little further if I wanted, but I'm really glad I had this earlier image:
http://www.railwayherald.org/imaging.centre/showimage.php?gallery=X7&image=133002

The second example was of Tornado at Armathwaite. The train was going rather slowly and so I knew there'd be no problem holding the shutter down and capturing the loco in the ideal position. I didn't need to hold the shutter and could've just taken one picture, but with a swirling wind would I have been able to fire at the precise moment when the exhaust hung nicely and the rods were down? Possibly, but I find it difficult to concentrate on both things at once, I might have got the rods down, but then the exhaust might not have been great. In the end I had 5 or 6 pics, all of which were acceptable, but I was able to choose the one with the best looking exhaust and rods combination. Notice that I didn't upload all 6, but just chose the best one from the series
http://www.railwayherald.org/imaging.centre/showimage.php?gallery=X7&image=133407

The last example is a case where I really couldn't have used a machine gun approach (apologies for the lack of heritage subject matter). With the train approaching at 100mph and only a fairly small gap in the catenary I had to fire at the right time. Even at 3fps the following pic would've had the front of the loco out of frame and the earlier one would've likely had it muddled with the catenary posts.
http://www.railwayherald.org/imaging.centre/showimage.php?gallery=X7&image=140147

 

DOF usually isn't an issue I find because to have a slow shutter for panning (e.g; 1/20 - 1/60), the aperture as a consequence is stopped down to anything over F11 in usual light conditions, thus automatically giving a greater depth of field.

Biggest problem I find though is the auto-focus on the camera and the inability to 'lock' the focussing prior to arrival of the train. I much preferred focussing with my old 35mm film SLR where the prism was aligned through the viewfinder, and I could use the exact spot on the rail head to pre-focus my shot. Too often I find my auto focussing D-SLR 'hunts' or just totally craps out on me - which isn't helpful!

 

I just tend to use manual focus all of the time. The focus confirmation LED in my viewfinder seems to work pretty well if you line up your active focus area with where you want to pre-focus. I've found it to be as reliable and easier to use than the viewfinder/focussing screen aids in my old film cameras. It's just a shame that many of the modern cheaper lenses have awful short-travel and loose focus rings that are really difficult to manually focus.

 

Yes I agree with the above comment about auto focus, I still prefere to use my DSLR on manual focus rather than auto.

 

I concur with the 'drop' when firing the shutter and also your later comment about auto focus. At the locations where I prefer to take pan shots there is a reasonable length of clear track which gives me about 3 opportunities to get a shot, although it requires a long lens of between about 150 to 200mm. At 1/50th second at 200mm any slight vertical movement is easily seen in the shot.
I set the camera up manually for the shutter speed and aperture required. When the train comes I pan with the loco, let the camera focus then fire 2 or 3 shots then release the shutter whilst still panning, I then let the loco get back into the frame properly (adjust zoom if necessary) and wait for the camera to refocus (if it had gone out of focus) then fire another to 2 or 3 shots. I repeat this until the loco disappears behind the trees, which is normally about 3 'bursts' depending on how well myself and the camera coped!! Unorthodox perhaps but it appears to sort of work for me. I've only had 3 attempts at pan shots on main line steam and I've been lucky enough to get a shot on each occasion, although none of them are perfect.

70013 2nd April 2009
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/irtmainpage/tmpsteam/2009-04-02-70013-01a.jpg

60163 13th September 2009
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/irtmainpage/tmpsteam/2009-09-13-60163-05.jpg

70013 6th March 2010
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/irtmainpage/tmpsteam/2010-03-06-70013-01.jpg
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/irtmainpage/tmpsteam/2010-03-06-70013-02d.jpg

 

Vertical movement can be combated if you have an image stabilising lens that can be set into "vertical only" mode. I've had success with my Canon 70-200 this way.

 

I have to say that this has been a most enjoyable thread to read so far.


It is IMHO a model of how this forum should be.

 

I must admit that I very seldom use the machine gun technique unless I am panning. That is when I find it most useful. I use the "vertical only" IS mode on my Canon 70-200.
I press the shutter just before the train becomes perpendicular with me. I'm not that good at co-ordinating my panning speed with that of the train, so I need to "warm up". A bit like a motorway slip road, I guess. I then keep the button held down until the train has started to go away. This tends to be about six shots. I find that this way, I can usually get the exact side shot right.

Examples:
http://graham-williams.fotopic.net/p62124547.html

http://graham-williams.fotopic.net/p59186425.html

http://graham-williams.fotopic.net/p51844422.html

http://graham-williams.fotopic.net/p51844745.html

http://graham-williams.fotopic.net/p57712253.html

http://graham-williams.fotopic.net/p62925824.html


Mind you, in film days, there was no such luxury as IS, I didn't have an autowind and film cost money, so I couldn't afford to waste shots. It was a one-time attempt and it either worked or it didn't!

Here in 1982:
http://graham-williams.fotopic.net/p63658284.html

And in 1983:
http://graham-williams.fotopic.net/p63658285.html

http://graham-williams.fotopic.net/p63658286.html

 

A very interesting thread. As far as panning keeping your finger on the button in my experience is the best way (being able to adjust the rate of fire is a big bonus so you dont go to mad) as it allows you to concentrate on the composition and unwanted lineside objects like telegraph poles and overhead wire supports, and as already stated lets you have a smooth pan from the subjest entering the view finder to leaving it. Having been brought up on the one shot medium format approach I still find it best to visualy work out before hand where you think the optimum shot is going to be and work round that, even with standard front 3/4 I will use short bursts around the optimum spot, as it allows for unforseen problems like something in the background appearing out of the chimney or drifting smoke maybe from a whistle obscuring the cab etc, also I find always keeping your camera in the shoot position as the train approaches rather than stopping to look at the subject or at other distractions really helps, often means that you miss the whole atmosphere of the passing train if you know what I mean but hopefuly you will come away with a good shot.

 

For moving trains I almost always 'machine gun', if that's the term used for keeping the shutter button held down. However, pressing the shutter button down for 3 seconds or so is just the final act, having spent time beforehand getting the composition and exposure right. Having half a dozen shots or so to select from enables me to select the image that I want to take further as I have the choice of where the engine / train is in the composition.

 

Some nice pans there. Lovely shot of the bushes in 1982. Shame about the A4 getting in the shot.
I switch IS off when shooting aircraft as the speeds involved require shutter speeds fast enough to avoid camera shake even when panning.