Main Line Steam - Possible ramifications of the WCRC suspension

Not quite sure how name calling gives your discussion points the moral high ground, do you?

Actual number? impossible to say as you well know. Hundreds? I can say not.

Forgive me, I fail to see how wishing a reporter to be factual and accurate can be disrespectful to anyone involved in this - could you explain that one to me?

Thats wrong. The "event" - the SPAD is serious yes. Did you see what was also officially said? The most serious to date this year. Does that indicate to you they expect more this year? As they do every year - 250 SPADS on average. The ORR are seriously looking into WCRC not because of the SPAD, but because of their subsequent attitude to it. - And evidence of poor safety management before that.

I agree, so why did you ask me to put a figure on it?

Indeed it should, but it hasn't in the past, and it wont be in the future.

 

I think there is a distinct difference between a class 5 trundling along a Scottish branchline and a high speed class 8 loco travelling at 75, the whole idea is to have a 'fail safe' sytem in place whatever the scenario. Even 0ne death attributable to a toc of any kind, would have been been catastrophic, but even more so one concerning steam operation, especially in view of a presence of anti steam feelings in some management.

 

I have read it, and its an interesting read. - This is a very interesting video on the subject

 

Reading these threads and posts this video keeps coming to my mind:

Lets wait and see what May brings, too much hysteria and assumption currently.

 

In the late 1980s I was standing on the up platform at Clarbeston Road awaiting the dmu from Milford Haven to Carmarthen. An HST for Fishguard was leaving the down platform and as the rear power car joined the single line at the platform end prior to the routes diverging I was horrified to see the dmu appear round the bend from Haverfordwest. It stopped just short of the point of conflict (although the HST would have cleared it by some 10 seconds), set back to the signal protecting the junction and then reappeared. The guard was in the cab with a very despondent looking driver most of the way to Carmarthen where the driver was relieved. Even from the platform with two slow trains it was most disconcerting. My wife didn't realise what was amiss until I explained. I gave my name and address to a BR official at Carmarthen but was not asked for any statement.

 

Alas, one thing May wont bring is the completed RAIB report.

 

The train came to rest blocking both up and down lines, so the range of possible outcomes ranged from no collision, single collision or double collision. Which of those occurred was pure chance dependent on the exact locations of surrounding trains and in particular whether they passed through in advance (as happened with the up train, just) or were far enough away to be warned and stopped in time (as must have happened to a down train, albeit the warning may have been several miles before). The seriousness with which an incident is treated has to be related to the potential consequence (impact * likelihood); not the actual consequence.

Tom

 

Did I mention any numbers ? No. Any number of dead, or even seriously injured would have been a catastrophe, literally to those involved, and also to the main line steam movement. So get off your soap box (or is it step ladder?) and take your rose-tinted filters off. And if you know so much about rail accidents, then you would know about the propensity of diesel fuel from split tanks to combust in accidents, particularly if there's a strong source of ignition involved - now I wonder what that could be? Suggest you aquaint yourself with the Ladbroke Grove disaster.

 

I have - how many died there? Hundreds? No. Indeed its one of the train crashes I have referred to. I am not wearing rose tinted specs, merely looking at past data in the public domain that supports the idea that "100s would have died" as an inaccurate and exaggerated statement to make. And for the life me I don't see how anyone on here or in the industry could condone or support such a wildly inaccurate and misleading statement.

Soap box? fraid you got there before me

quote

No-one has or tried to on here.

 

I have been watching the golf so just caught up on this thread. All bar one corespondent have made useful contributions. One appears to be an agressive pedant who has contributed little to advance this topic.

 

Don't be shy, name names.

 

I have seen no reference to a third train in the area potentially being involved had there been a collision between the WCRC excursion and the HST so it is absolutely pointless in surmising what would have happened in that eventuality.

 

Just a couple of my own observations regarding the Daily Telegraph article, after all the other posters comments - so far!

The quote that the train was travelling at 75mph is overstated, as the RAIB report calculates that the train speed to be about 51mph – just a correction from me, not doubting the seriousness of the SPAD by the way.

On a positive note, the reporters comments that representatives from ORR had a meeting with WCRC, at Carnforth, on Friday, this surely is a good sign that all parties are trying to resolve the issue quickly.

This did give WCRC the opportunity to show, and re assure, ORR of their operation, processes and procedures, in addition to the progress work on meeting NRs requirements, which hopefully will help to get their operation up and running soon.

Yes, I am adopting a positive outlook on WCRC, being back in business soon - there is no one else who can provide the current level of operational staff, train crews - with route knowledge across all of the UK; plus rolling stock, a pool of locomotives at their disposal, engineering facilities, and logistical experience in positioning stock; as a dedicated charter private TOC.

 

Just a slight geographical correction - no offence meant!; from time spent visiting the area over the last 20 years!

Mallaig is still a fishing port, and is the main car ferry port for services from Mallaig to Armadale, on the Isle of Skye.
The bridge runs from the small village of Kyle of Lochalsh onto Skye - and is a long, 3 hour road drive, from Fort William, which is the nearest main town 40 miles from Mallaig.

Would agree with the summer income, and I have seen the season change from Easter through to late October, so this does help the local economy.

Apologies for the change of thread........

 

This may be slightly OT and if so, I apologise. It is easy to misinterpret the tone of posts but I felt Mr Knowwun was a little scornful that The Jacobite service uses "short trains". It might be helpful for him to look at the tight radius of the curves on, and the gradient profile of the line. In practical terms the Black 5 is right on the limit of the biggest loco which could be used. It is a matter of record that tyres and flanges suffer over a season's running. The K1 is ideal in size but to ask a 5 or K1 to pull more than 7 on this line with it's tight curves and steep climbs would put unreasonable pressure on the loco. The trains may be short by main line, one-off tour standards but for Fort William to Mallaig they are as long as reasonably possible. I hope this helps Mr K to put the matter in perspective.

 

I was not at all scornful about the length of the jacobite service, and fully understand the operational reasons for its consist, the length merely came up on a capacity basis, where compared to a normal mainline steam excursion they are shorter and have a smaller payload.