Mallard

Set of sliver Mk3s? Think they are nearest in looks to the Jubilee set.
If I ran the country..........don't really need to say any more do I! :lol:

 

"If" Mr Hosking was to have his A4 boiler ex-60103 fully repaired/rebuilt in a timescale that allowed it to be used for a short period on Mallard, there are (at least) three issues: First the willingness of the NRM to allow the temporary transplant. Will they have the money to do that, particularly if the engine requires mechanical work as well? Second, when does the current boiler ticket expire in respect of "Bittern", assuming Mr Hosking would want to be able to drop the spare unit into Bittern to avoid a protracted lay-off? Finally what would the implications be for the spare boiler in terms of its own ticket, ie can you use it on Mallard for say six months and then does the "clock" stop, or does it then have to have further work to regain a full ticket?
Anthony will no doubt have a view, and whilst having both 60103 and Mallard in steam would be a huge draw Worldwide for the NRM, it is still down to "money" in these difficult times.

Edit: The over-riding consideration however is where Mallard--restored to steam-- would fit in with the NRM's future plans. It might be that looking ahead for say the next five years they feel they will have enough on their plate, given funding restrictions, simply having 60103 in steam.

46118

 

When 4468 was restored at Doncaster for preservation more work was done than was strictly needed. The locomotive is in pretty good condition mechanically and would be an easier proposition than 4472 from that point of view. If the boiler were to be removed in late summer, then, given a large enough level of funding, it could probably be turned round quite smartly by the same people who have dealt with the A3s boiler providing there were no problems obtaining materials. My biggest concern is the amount of monitoring equipment that would have to be fitted to allow it to run on the national network and how that would impact on the nature of the beast. I don't think the NRM would want the authenticity of the engine compromised so static display with other Gresley engines (in LNER livery of course) hauling any special trains marking the event would be the way. Sad though.

 

It's all very well discussing the possibilities and whys and wherefores of overhauling Mallard but I think it is safe to say that it is not going to happen, at least in the short to medium term. Personally I don't think it should be ever overhauled, shock horror - I've never seen 4468 running but I have seen 60007, 60009 and 60019 which covers it as far as I'm concerned. We should be thinking about more realistic alternatives for the 75th anniversary.

 

In an ideal - money no object - world, it would be great to have Mallard in steam. But frankly I think it's a non-starter, certainly whilst the overhaul of Scotsman is still in progress. The NRM is already heavily committed with that project, and to take on any sort of overhaul of Mallard could be considered foolish at this stage. And really, why steam a FOURTH A4 - I'd rather see time, effort and money put into the overhaul of 60532.

A more likely proposition (but ultimately still pie-in-the-sky!) to celebrate the 75th anniversary I suggest would be to retro-fit one of the other three A4s with the side valencing and re-paint into LNER garter blue. You could even renumber and re-name as 'Mallard' for an anniversary run. It isn't a straight forward job, and there are other details other than the addition of the valencing to consider, but it won't be anywhere near as extensive as the work required to re-streamline 6229.

 

From memory when Bittern 60019 was last overhauled the side panels were put in to store and could be refitted. This would only leave the loco to be repainted again? This could be a more sensible option than overhauling 4468.

 

I highly doubt it'll be done for the 75th anniversary. No mention from the NRM so there's probably nothing other than a ceremony planned. There'll be quite some debt incurred from 4472 which will need paying off before another pacific is taken into the works. For the 100th anniversary though, that's another matter.

I don't see where the NRM's justification is for the authenticity argument with 4468. No one will care if there are a few new patches welded into the boiler or a bit of weld to that rust hole in the tender -- she'll still be Mallard. Afterall, 4472 is just as famous and important as Mallard, and most of its boiler isn't what was hoisted into the frames in BR ownership. In fact, isn't 4472 not 4472? The frames, I've heard, are from another of the class so I don't see where authenticity comes into anything. Also, Mallard's history didn't end in 1938. The boiler she has isn't the one that she broke the record with, same can be said about the tender as well.

 

The argument is that whilst 60009, 60007 and 60019 are blatting about the national network 4468 sits in York in pristine condition, not deteriorating, as the other three undoubtedly are simply through the natural cycle of use.

Yes not all of its parts are original 1938 126mph parts, but they are still part of the historical fabric of the locomotive and should not be replaced when it is frankly unneccesary, due to the continued operation of the aforementioned three. It isn't because it is Mallard that it shouldn't be overhauled - it is because it is the most original example of an A4 in the UK. It is rather like City of Birmingham - Sutherland runs, Hamilton's streamlined, City of Birmingham is ORIGINAL - and isn't that wonderful? Does it not excite you when you see Lode Star that you are looking at an original Swindon works paintjob?

 

Er, no.
I'd be much more excited to see and hear Lode Star in action.

 

Quite right Ian, too much is attached to the significance of 'last works' jobs done on engines. It tends to focus too much on one particular thing (ie the paint job or the treatment received in the works) than the whole engine itself. It writes off the entire history of the locomotive on the justification of one coat of paint...

 

Of course the entire history of a locomotive is important, but we don't have the whole history of the locomotive to preserve, only what we are left with at the end of its working life, i.e. those parts that constitute the locomotive on the last day of service or after the last overhaul. Once a locomotive is withdrawn it is an artefact - an artefact of a passed time, you could almost argue that any museum piece has no history from after it becomes a museum piece, as it is no longer truly useful in the modern world except as a means of invoking the past.

That being said I'm not advocating the stuffing and mounting of every engine, carriage and station, left in a perfect timewarp from the day it was withdrawn or closed. Just I think that there are some engines that should not run again, because of the value of them as an artefact of the past. Lode Star, City of Birmingham and Mallard come under this umbrella, the former because of the state in which it was handed over to the British Transport Museum and then the NRM, the latter two because there are examples of their respective classes operating, and as such these two can be the truly 'preserved' examples for generations to come. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see all of these engines operating, but I can appreciate the historical value of them remaining as they are.

 

I would love to see Mallard in steam again even if it is just a few years like it did in the 1980s. Though with 2 A4s already running and a 3rd under overhaul I don't think it will.

 

Dan

I have to agree that we wont see her on the main line again in the foreseeable future, maybe hope of being in light steam in the yard,mores the pity - but Joe Public go to the NRM, be it at York or Shildon to see her,and expect to see her up close & personal.

I reckon if she were out & about gallivanting up & down the mainline all summer long, then there would be more than few people upset that she's not there - dont forget She IS the main attraction in many peoples eyes.

Dave

 

Agreed. The concensus is that for the 75th the best that could be acheived would be another A4 Flying the Flag ideally in 'guise'. I like the idea of Mk III'S being given a matching (coronation) paintjob.

The situation Maybe a little different in 25 years time though. If things remain as they and main line steam is still going...4472 would be on her third boiler ticket and probably needing another heavy general overhaul - who knows what condition the other A4's will be in after another twenty-five years running... Im sure such a significant anniversary might prompt a restoration of Mallard . It might well be her last time in steam...

 

So, £800,000 for restoration of the boiler, major work to the frames, some wheels needing realignment, new axel boxes for the tender, new smokebox, new chimney, explosion in copper prices in 2009, lots of work contracted out, transport of boiler, frames and wheels between contractors.... might all that be expensive? Contrary to what you may think, the NRM is not made of money. Nor is HLF or Joe Public, although thank god for the SOS appeal.

 

And as irwellsteam points out, lots of new non-service days parts!

 

I thought that the 'Dragons comment referred to this comment by you:

No doubt he'll qualify.

 

On the same note could we realistically ever see 4489 Dominion of Canada and 4496 Dwight D Eisenhower run again. Or would it be possible to have all six A4s together at some point in the future?

 

Barrow Hill 2035 anyone?