If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Manchester ship canal locomotives

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by rough-shunter, Feb 6, 2009.

    Thanks.
    I didnt know if the gronks where still in use or not
     
  1. Eagle1711

    Eagle1711 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,693
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Electrician
    Location:
    Bury, Greater Manchester
    so how much locos have they got left now?
     
  2. Eagle1711

    Eagle1711 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,693
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Electrician
    Location:
    Bury, Greater Manchester
  3. saltydog

    saltydog Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    2,566
    Likes Received:
    70
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Birmingham
  4. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    8,164
    Likes Received:
    2,358
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Interesting to note the red line on No.70 is at 160psi when these boilers were only pressed to 140psi! When were they uprated?
     
  5. Eagle1711

    Eagle1711 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,693
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Electrician
    Location:
    Bury, Greater Manchester
    MSC Railway

    1910 Railway Clearing House diagram of Manchester's railway system, showing at left the terminal docks area. An LNWR line (red) runs in from a junction near Eccles; an LYR line (blue) runs through a tunnel from near Windsor Bridge; a CLC line (orange) runs in at Bridgewater Junction. MSC lines are marked in hatched black. No. 10 Dock, shown, was planned but not built.To service the large amount of freight being landed at the canal's docks the Manchester Ship Canal Railway was created to carry goods from nearby industrial estates, including Trafford Park, and connect to the various railway companies near the canal. The MSC Railway, unlike most other railway companies in the UK, was not nationalised in 1948 and became the largest private railway system in the British Isles, with 790 employees,[39] 75 locomotives, 2,700 wagons and over 200 miles (320 km) of track.[40]

    The MSC Railway was able to receive and despatch goods trains to and from all the UK main line railway systems using connecting junctions at three points in the terminal docks. Two were to the north of the canal operated by the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway and the London and North Western Railway and one was to the south operated by the Cheshire Lines Committee.[41]. There was a railway swing bridge over the canal near No.6 dock that linked the MSC lines on either side of the canal.

    Many of the MSC steam locomotives were 0-6-0 tank engines, several of which have been preserved, including Hudswell Clarke 0-6-0T no. 32 Gothenburg, which now masquerades as Thomas the Tank Engine at the East Lancashire Railway.[42]. A fleet of diesel locomotives was purchased between 1959 and 1966, but this was later run down and the remaining engines are stationed at Ellesmere Port and Stanlow

    from wiki

    does anyone have a list of the steam locos names/numbers?
     
  6. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    8,164
    Likes Received:
    2,358
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    your not asking much, are you!? Here goes:

    1 Elham HE 353 0-6-0ST
    2 Romiily HE 357 0-6-0ST
    3 Raglan HE 414 0-6-0ST
    4 Cadoxton HE 393 0-6-0ST
    5 Douglas HE 381 0-6-0ST
    6 Longsight HE 455 0-6-0ST
    7 Bolton MW 1066 0-6-0ST
    8 Haywood MW 1082 0-6-0ST
    9 Winsford HC 348 0-6-0ST
    10 Irk HE 566 0-6-0ST
    11 Alexandria P 654 0-4-0ST
    12 Jaffa P 655 0-4-0ST
    13 Montreal HE 685 0-6-0T (Jazzer)
    14 St Johns HE 686 0-6-0T (Jazzer)
    15 New York HE 699 0-6-0T (Jazzer)
    16 Galveston HE 700 0-6-0T (Jazzer)
    17 New Orleans HE 711 0-6-0T (Jazzer)
    18 Savannah HE 712 0-6-0T (Jazzer)
    19 London HE 721 0-6-0T (Jazzer)
    20 Glasgow HE 732 0-6-0T (Jazzer)
    21 Antwerp HE 777 0-6-0T (Jazzer)
    22 Rotterdam HE 778 0-6-0T (Jazzer)
    23 Boston HC 641 0-6-0T (Canal/Short Tank)
    24 Philadelphia HC 642 0-6-0T (Canal/Short Tank)
    25 Valencia P 907 0-4-0ST
    26 Bristol HC 615 0-4-0ST
    27 Dublin HC 643 0-6-0T (Canal/Short Tank)
    28 Belfast HC 644 0-6-0T (Canal/Short Tank)
    29 Bombay HC 662 0-6-0T (Canal/Short Tank)
    30 Kurrachee HC 663 0-6-0T (Canal/Short Tank)
    31 Hamburg HC 679 0-6-0T (Canal/Short Tank)
    32 Gothenburg HC 680 0-6-0T (Canal/Short Tank)
    33 Christiana HC 695 0-6-0T (Canal/Short Tank)
    34 Copenhagen HCR 218 0-6-0ST
    34 Jeannie HC 694 0-6-0T (Canal/Short Tank)
    35 Stockholm HC 701 0-6-0T (Canal/Short Tank)
    36 Port Limon K 4295 0-6-0T
    37 Adelaide HC 735 0-6-0T (Canal/Short Tank)
    38 Melbourne HC 739 0-6-0T (Canal/Short Tank)
    39 Sidney HC 740 0-6-0T (Canal/Short Tank)
    40 Buenos Ayres HC 741 0-6-0T (Canal/Short Tank)
    41 Monte Video HC 756 0-6-0T (Canal/Short Tank)
    42 Rosario HC 757 0-6-0T (Canal/Short Tank)
    43 Wellington HC 758 0-6-0T (Canal/Short Tank)
    44 Aukland HC 775 0-6-0T (Canal/Short Tank)
    45 Jamaica HC 780 0-6-0T (Canal/Short Tank)
    46 Quebec HC 781 0-6-0T (Canal/Short Tank)
    47 Canada HC 789 0-6-0T (Canal/Short Tank)
    48 India HC 790 0-6-0T (Canal/Short Tank)
    49 Stettin HC 797 0-6-0T (Canal/Short Tank)
    50 Australia HC 798 0-6-0T (Canal/Short Tank)
    51 New Zealand HC 799 0-6-0T (Canal/Short Tank)
    52 Norway HC 940 0-6-0T (Sweden/Long tank)
    53 Sweden HC 941 0-6-0T (Sweden/Long tank)
    54 Odessa HC 1001 0-6-0T (Sweden/Long tank)
    55 Batoum HC 1002 0-6-0T (Sweden/Long tank)
    56 Smyrna HC 1020 0-6-0T (Sweden/Long tank)
    57 Dunkirk HC 1041 0-6-0T (Sweden/Long tank)
    58 Bordeaux HC 1042 0-6-0T (Sweden/Long tank)
    59 Ghent HC 1046 0-6-0T (Sweden/Long tank)
    60 Riga HC 1047 0-6-0T (Sweden/Long tank)
    61 Reval HC 1059 0-6-0T (Sweden/Long tank)
    62 St Petersburg HC 1060 0-6-0T (Sweden/Long tank)
    63 HC 1224 0-6-0T (Sweden/Long tank)
    64 HC 1240 0-6-0T (Sweden/Long tank)
    65 HC 1361 0-6-0T (Sweden/Long tank)
    66 HC 1362 0-6-0T (Sweden/Long tank)
    67 HC 1369 0-6-0T (Sweden/Long tank)
    68 HC 1370 0-6-0T (Sweden/Long tank)
    69 HC 1430 0-6-0T (Sweden/Long tank)
    70 HC 1464 0-6-0T (Sweden/Long tank)
    71 HC 1465 0-6-0T (Sweden/Long tank)
    72 K 5357 0-6-0T
    73 K 5370 0-6-0T
    74 K 5371 0-6-0T
    75 HC 1527 0-6-0ST
    76 HC 1589 0-6-0T (Sweden/Long tank)
    77 P 1724 0-4-0ST
    78 HC 1584 0-6-0ST
    79 HC 1590 0-6-0T (Sweden/Long tank)
    80 K 5421 0-6-0T
    81 K 5422 0-6-0T
    82 K 5423 0-6-0T
    83 HE 1694 0-6-0ST
    84 HE 1695 0-6-0ST
    85 VE 5294 0-6-0ST (Austerity)
    86 HC 1769 0-6-0ST (Austerity)
    87 HE 3205 0-6-0ST (Austerity)
    88 HC 1865 0-6-0ST
    89 HC 1866 0-6-0ST
    90 HC 1867 0-6-0ST

    There were 2 locos numbered 34. Of those 91 locos, all but 5 were built in Leeds. In addition, about 175 locos worked on the building of the canal and 14 of these were hired to the MSC before they obtained their own locos. Don't ask me for a list of those!
     
  7. I will post a list later tomorrow My book arrived today (the railways of the manchester ship canal ) and what a tomb it is its brilliant rather indepth more than i was expecting
     
  8. 3855

    3855 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2008
    Messages:
    327
    Likes Received:
    162
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    inside a boiler
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Interesting to note the red line on No.70 is at 160psi when these boilers were only pressed to 140psi! When were they uprated?[/quote]

    Nos 31,32 and 70 have all run at 160 psi in preservation.
    The MSC ran this type of loco at 140 psi from the 1950's til the end of steam there in the early 1970's. The MSC was virtually self sufficient when it came to heavy loco overhauls and it wasn't unknown for them to construct replacement boilers, i believe the later boilers built were only tested for a 140 psi working pressure.
    There is a copy of an original Hudswell Clarke spec sheet in Don Thorpes book on the MSC clearly illustrating the loco's were built to run at 160 psi. Nos 31/32 and 70 have markings on their backheads indicating a 160 psi boiler pressure.
     
  9. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    8,164
    Likes Received:
    2,358
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Sorry, but I'm going to contradict you. Even though it shows a picture of a short tank, the spec in Don Thorpe's book (p111) refers to a Hudswell 12" 0-6-0ST loco no.75 and not to either a short or a long tank. He also quotes the boiler pressure for these locos as being 140 psi.in the tabulated lists on pages 117 & 123. The boiler on No. 67 is stamped at 140 psi and always has been. Are you sure that the 160 psi stamping does not relate to the steam test which was often 10-20 psi above working pressure? The Hunslet Jazzers had 160 psi boilers and I don't know how interchangeable they were with the Hudswells. They are certainly similar.
     
  10. Eagle1711

    Eagle1711 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,693
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Electrician
    Location:
    Bury, Greater Manchester
    hey jud,

    could you give me the details of this book, might need to purchase as im interested now \:D/

    ok more info....when where they all disposed of and what happened to their fates?

    where did they do all there repairs?
     
  11. 3855

    3855 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2008
    Messages:
    327
    Likes Received:
    162
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    inside a boiler
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Trust me on this one they were built to run at 160 psi, then downrated to 140 psi. When preserved nos 31/32 and 70 had their safety valves etc set to a 140 psi boiler pressure.
    But as they all had older boiler built and certified to operate at 160 psi, getting authorisation to raise the pressure back to 160psi in the 1970's was fairly simple. The book as you say does quote a 140 psi boiler pressure but that does not reflect the full picture.
    The backhead markings concur with 160psi working pressure and having had the privilege to meet and talk with ex Mode Wheel staff over the years and owners of the above 3 locos all of whom concur with this explanation.
     
  12. Eagle1711

    Eagle1711 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,693
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Electrician
    Location:
    Bury, Greater Manchester
    can anyone tell me what happened to the steam locos after they finished at msc? did they simply just got bought by preserved railways or stored for awhile?
     
  13. Many where scrapped i think about 6 where preserved not just the msc types having been looking through the book there was more than one type of loco on the msc from austeritys through to tiny 14 inch pecketts
     
  14. kestreleyes

    kestreleyes Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2007
    Messages:
    1,022
    Likes Received:
    175
    Occupation:
    signal engineer
    the deisel shunter that went to peak has been in use ever since,its currently in repaint,being the darley dale yard pilot 8-[
     
  15. Platelayer

    Platelayer Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    21


    See my response to the original question at the start of the thread for full details including ISBN number.
     
  16. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Resident of Nat Pres Account Suspended

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2007
    Messages:
    9,265
    Likes Received:
    761
    Occupation:
    Project Management, Software consulting
    Location:
    London
    Just shuffling through some papers I found this picture taken many years ago at the ELR of MSC E1...

    If I am correct the ELR has given a home to 4 MSC loco's..
    Diesel

    E1 - a small 0-6-0
    4006 ? a large diesel 0-6-0

    Steam:
    32 Gothenburg
    70 (Named Phoenix in 1981)

    Where they are and what they do now.. I dont know.
     
  17. msc 70 is now at the avon valley
     
  18. planetpower

    planetpower Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2006
    Messages:
    234
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    nowt
    Location:
    East Lancs Rly Or Boston Lodge
    4001 is stored at Winfield's shoe shop as spares for 4002
    4002 is stored and will hopefully make an appearance this year
    E1 is at peak rail
    DH16 is running at the west summerset
    14 is still as Thomas as far as i know
    32 the poor thing is painted up as Thomas
    31 is stored at Oxenhope
    67 is running at Middleton
    70 is running at Avon Valley

    The only two steam locos on the list that have never been to the ELR are 67 and 31
    and 4001 hasn't ether but many parts off it have.
     
  19. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Resident of Nat Pres Account Suspended

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2007
    Messages:
    9,265
    Likes Received:
    761
    Occupation:
    Project Management, Software consulting
    Location:
    London

    You missed 680 Lady Armadale from the list.. she's an MSC one too.
     

Share This Page