Margaret

it would make a good exhibition to draw us nerds in anyway to have half a dozen absorbed and similar engines on display somewhere. I'd go.


TVR 28 and 85
PTR 813
Cardiff rly 1338
GVR 1378
Alex.docks 1340
Pontyberem

That's a remarkable list of survivors.

 

My little mate, 921, still bearing her Caerphilly works applied number on the rear buffer beam - a GWR loco from 1924-1928!

 

Where is she though now, since the political beancounters have closed Snibston?

 

who's going to be the first to post a gallery of photos of that lot?


PS Sentinel No 12 also

 

I've never seen 921 but I'd love to see it at the GCR - within sight of its birthplace. Not sure what the GCR would do with it, mind. Is it restorable?

 

so long as it doesn't get swept under the carpet.

 

Stored locally I believe

 

It has been very carefully conserved. It doesn't need restoring. Yes, one day, it would be nice to see it in the museum at Leicester North, but that's just my personal opinion and does not represent GCR or NRM policy.

 

If you think about it though, a similar sized list of constituent company survivors could readily be compiled for the Southern.

Think it looks different for the Gw because there were so many small lines absorbed and no very big ones. Plus too the GW seemed notably reluctant to build or even buy 0-4-0t so some amazing antiques kept running.

Did other lines sell off non standard locos to industry to the same extent as the Gw? Didn't some Terriers (and P class) survive for that reason?

 

Go on then

 

Bluebell, IOW and K&ESR stock lists should make for a good start!

 

Terriers

Terriers went all over the place quite early - Fenchurch was the first to be sold to the Newhaven Harbour Co. in 1898.

The complete list goes something like this - (*) indicates it is one of the surviving Terriers:

72 (*) Fenchurch - to Newhaven Harbour Co, 1898.

40 (*) Brighton, 69 Peckham, 75 Blackwall, 84 Crowborough - to Isle of Wight Central Railway between 1899 and 1903. 40 is now W11 "Newport" on the Isle of Wight Railway.

36 Bramley, 39 Denmark, 649 Bishopgate, 652 Surrey, 657 Thames - to Pauling & Co contractors in 1902, used on the construction of the GCR. 652 and 657 may have been subsequently sold on to the La Plata Tramway in South America. Who knows, they may still be sleeping in some South American Shed, swapping yarns about the old days with "Lew" ...

70 (*) Poplar, 671 Wapping - to K&ESR, 1901 and 1905. 70 is now No. 3 "Bodiam" on the K&ESR.

646 (*) ex-Newington, 668 ex-Clapham - to L&SWR in 1903. 646 (by then LSWR 734) was subsequently sold on to the Freshwater, Yarmouth and Newport and is now preserved on the IoWSR as W8 "Freshwater".

654 (*) ex-Waddon - to Sheppey Light Railway, then SE&CR in 1904, renumbered 751. By September 1932, it was the last Southern Railway locomotive still in pre-grouping livery. Entered departmental stock as Lancing Carriage Works Shunter, now preserved in Canada.

637, 638, 679, 681, 683 sold to the Admiralty in 1918. All five ended up in Scotland. 681 and 683 were subsequently sold on to the Shropshire and Montgomeryshire Railway.

673, 674 sold 1919 - to Edge Hill Light Railway in 1920

667, sold 1920 Mylon & Smith, sold on to Grassmore Colliery.

B643 (ex-Gypsyhill) - sold to Weston, Clevedon and Portishead Railway, 1925, subsequently ended up in GWR stock.

Some of those sold on came back into SR or BR capital stock, notably 72, 70, 40, 646, 668, 654.

P class

These stuck around on the SE&CR / SR without being sold, as they were useful for shunting in wharves and confined goods yards. All 8 made it into BR ownership.

Two of the currently preserved locomotives - 27 (Bluebell) and 753 (KESR) spent some of the First World War shunting on Boulogne Dock for the ROD before coming back into SE&CR control.

Ultimately two were sold to industry, both of which are now preserved:

178, sold to Bowaters Paper Mills 1958 where she worked until 1969. Repainted in SE&CR livery and named "Pioneer II". Now preserved on the Bluebell.

753, sold (as 31556) to Hodson & Son Millers, Robertsbridge. Named "Pride of Sussex", worked until 1970; now preserved on the K&ESR.

Tom

 

Oh, all right ...

I make it 33 - 37 pre-grouping survivors from SR constituents (depending on your view about "Invicta", "Beachy Head" and the two Maunsell examples) as follows:

Notable in this list is that there are more LBSCR locos than any other constituent company, but the LSWR has fared best in having a variety of designs from a variety of designers: Beattie, Adams, Drummond and Urie are all represented, whereas the SECR list is almost 100% Wainwright and the Brighton list is mostly Stroudley.

ex-Canterbury & Whitsable - 1 loco

1 - Invicta

ex-LSWR - 12 locos:

- 2 Beattie Well tanks
- 2 Adams B4 dock tanks
- 1 Adams radial tank
- 1 Adams T3 4-4-0
- 1 Adams O2 0-4-4T
- 2 Drummond M7
- 1 Drummond T9
- 2 Urie S15

ex-LBSCR - 13 (arguably 14) locos:

- 10 Stroudley A / A1x class (Terriers)
- 1 Stroudley E class
- 1 Stroudley B class (Gladstone)
- 1 Billinton E4 radial tank
- 1 Marsh H2 Atlantic under construction, using some original components

ex-SER - 1 loco, rebuilt

- 1 Stirling O class, rebuilt (boiler, cab etc) by Wainwright as an O1

ex-LCDR - Nothing

ex-SECR - 7 (arguably 9) locos

- 4 Wainwright P class
- 1 Wainwright C class
- 1Wainwright H class
- 1 Wainwright D class
- 1 Maunsell N class (built by the SR but to an SECR design)
- 1 Maunsell U class (rebuilt from an SECR K class).

Tom

 

true, but can you list the locos from the companies which constituted the larger companies which became the SR? There aren't many . Ironically nothing survives from the Cambrian or MSWJR, both reasonable sized constituents.

Oh and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GWR_1101_Class

 

Wasn't the GWR a constituent of the GWR in 1922 anyway?

 

Four B4s were also sold to Stewarts & Lloyds, although they didn't last very long, and I think I'm right in saying that another one ended up at a colliery in Yorkshire.

ETA: It appears that a total of twelve B4s were sold to industrial users.

 

Indeed, though the question was about Terriers and Ps.

Of the other SR locos, Adams Radial 488 was sold to the Ministry of Supply and then the East Kent Railway, before being bought back by the SR in 1946. Adams B4 96 was sold by BR Corralls oil company and named "Corrall Queen" before entering preservation. Stroudley E tank 110 was sold on 1927 to the Cannock and Rugely Colliery and entered preservation from there.

It has to be said that there are an awful lot of serendipitous survivals amongst that group of 30-odd locos.

Tom

 

Yes and then again no. AIUI here was much political shenanigans, but in the end the pre group GWR wasn't wound up or taken over, but its share base and board were considerably expanded. There's a fair bit about that in Pole's Book, but I haven't got my copy with me.