Matheran 740

If our transatlantic cousins wish to give them back, fine, but we have no right to demand they do. If a gathering of Matheran locos was planned in India, then an arrangement a la A4s would be quite acceptable IMO.

 

It would seem to be more appropriate for it to return to India or even go back to Germany. Anywhere in fact which will not involve it lying around in pieces for an infinite period.

PH

 

Slight inaccuracy in the Indian statement: it was never 'acquired' by Amberley, simply delivered there for storage having arrived in the UK with other locos from India pending suitable arrangements being ready to accept it at RailWorld in Peterborough.

This was all under the auspices of the late Mike Satow.

It eventually moved to Leighton Buzzard - where Mike was involved - and was put back into working order there and used until the expiry of it's boiler ticket.

 

Agreed, better to have a loco working in a foreign land than sitting around or rusting away here.

 

Well the Indians already have 3 examples of their own which they could restore to operation should the will and money be available.
738 had been overhauled in the past and if they were serious about restoring an example to service would probably be the easiest proposition (certainly in terms of completness). By last year however it had been taken from undercover storage in the shed and mounted on a plinth at Neral exposed to the elements. 741 is in a similar situation at Materhan. Whilst they'd been repainted recently, both already showed signs of components having been removed (presumeably "unofficially") since they'd been painted, and no effort had been made to grease the valve gear or even cover the chimney. to prevent deterioration.
The the last time I saw 739 in Delhi it too was in pretty poor external shape.
Unfortunately the Indian idea of restoration/preservation often involves little more than welding patches over the worst of the holes and applying another coat of filler/paint over the rust.
What I was also told last year by somebody in India who has been heavily involved in trying to promote the development of steam tourism out there is that the turnover of management staff within Indian Railways is such that getting any kind of longer term project such as this off the ground is nigh on impossible as the key players simply move on and there is no guaruntee that those that follow will have any interest in completing it.

Personally, I think 740's chances of restoration and a long term future as a working loco are much greater here than they would ever be in India.

Chris

 

Okay then it's Germany as they have more link with the machine.

PH

 

Unfortunately, the Sub continent is littered with "preserved" locomotives, mostly as static displays; a few are actually well cared for, but there is a large number of locos slowly deteriorating, ostensibly dumped on a plinth or moldering away, robbed of parts in the shed yard - probably for an "infinite period".

It was probably lucky for 740 that the late Mike Satow negotiated the export of the loco, never an easy task from India, otherwise, it too would have ended up "stuffed and mounted". It is indeed a shame, as besides the Darjeeling locos, there are a great many other very interesting narrow gauge locos "preserved" in India, albeit, stuffed and mounted; on the bright side, at least they still survive.

A future for 740 restored and working in the UK? I don't see why not as very few narrow gauge locomotives in the UK lie around in pieces for very long and as it is mostly complete, it would seem to be a very worthwhile project for restoration and running on any number of 2'-0" gauge lines. As we know, there is a steady Global market for narrow gauge locos, so, it could end up being exported, but my bet is that it will stay here in the UK, because, let's face it, if you want a narrow gauge loco now, you will not have to go through the whole gut busting rigmarole of trying to import one if you bought 740.

Anyroadup, we will soon see what will happen with 740 as the bidding process will be over soon. I hope it stays here, not least in honour of the memory of Mike Satow and all of his work in preservation.

Cheers

Alan

 

Could be a good choice for the L&B to work alongside Isaac hauling their new rake of heritage coaches?

 

I think it may be of note to point out that it is election season in india, it is also worth noting they already have the other 3 which are all sat on plinths, I still hope it is able to come back to the leighton buzzard railway

 

Lots of people would agree that it should be transferred back to another accredited Museum, that commit to its restoration.

 

Just seen some photos of the (apparently less than successful) conversion to oil firing that has taken place on the B class loco now based on the Materhan line. Marginally less awful in appearance than the Darjeelings initial oil firing efforts on their B class locos, but not a fate I'd wish to see inflicted on 740, or any of the indian examples for that matter.

 

Since you insist. If someone, even a government, donates - i.e. gives - something to someone else, it is their property to do what they like with. Unless appropriate and binding conditions are agreed at the time.

The vendor is obviously seeking someone with the resources to look after the loco properly - that seems a sufficient and adequate discharge of any moral responsibility. From that point of view asking a reasonable purchase price is simply confirming the purchaser is serious. Too may 'donated' locos, especially s.g. industrials, end up as neglected rusty hulks.

 

Is the LBR (as an accredited museum) putting a bid together for 740? As the railway which put a lot of work into her and actually had her running it would be nice to see her back there.

Does the L&B have the undercover space and current need for another steam locomotive with three already resident and a fourth on the way? But then I suppose the answer to this question probably applies to most 2ft gauge railways in the UK....

Incidentally she has been available for a while as it was suggested last year she could be the next project at Launceston after the railcar. However four Hunslets is more than enough to keep the trains going and Nigel isn't too keen on the Klein-Lindner articulation...

 

Axe is (at present) incompatible with the heritage coaches and I wondered if she could haul them up from Killington Lane anyway, Charles Wytock is privately owned and, by their own admission, "it is not the intention that this loco will become a regular part of the L&B's operations," and Lyn is along way off yet. With a fourth heritage coach on the way and the potential for extension in the medium term, you could argue there is a need.

 

Axe is currently having a small tender completed which will allow it to connect to the heritage coaches, and the loco is certainly able to haul a full rake of these. It is expected that Axe and Isaac will both be in service with the coaches. However, I doubt that the L&B would want to spend money on the Matheran loco with all the other expenses involved with the Transport and Works order, trackbed acquisition, etc, even if there were space in the shed at Woody Bay!

 

However, I doubt that the L&B would want to spend money on the Matheran loco with all the other expenses involved with the Transport and Works order, trackbed acquisition, etc, even if there were space in the shed at Woody Bay!

The usual solution to that is for a group of members to get together...... Perhaps the former shareholders in Sid might be interested?

 

I suspect the former Sid owners are already fully committed to other L&B projects. I really don't see the Matheran as suitable for the L&BR, much better for it to go to the LBR!