MHR Spring gala 25-27 March 2011 City Of Truro 3440 & Earl Of Berkley 9017

Re: MHR Spring gala 25-27 March 2011 City Of Truto 3440 & Earl Of Berkley 9017

Network Rail have recently issued a briefing paper for train builders, in which they admit that 46% of all Network Rail routes have structures which no longer comply with standard locomotive gauge. The proposed solution is..... build smaller trains !

As I recall, Railtrack had a formal legal obligation to maintain structure gauge clearances at (or better than) those existing on the date of privitisation in 1992, to ensure that rail vehicles with grandfather rights were still able to use the network. I presume that Network Rail inherited this obligation ? Someone will no doubt correct me if I am wrong. Of course the fact that Railtrack record keeping was pretty abysmal probably means that there are no longer any records of clearances in 1992 !

But being realistic, as long as modern trains can still squeeze through, there really is not much incentive to NR to rectify the situation in order to accomodate the few vehicles (mainly steam engines) which require the full gauge clearances. As a minority user, steam engines are understandably right at the bottom of the priority order. We will just have to hope that more routes are cleared for large containers, or are electrified - paradoxically this usually helps with overhead clearances. Otherwise nothing much will change until the steady erosion of clearances starts affecting mainstream ToCs and Freight Operators - and there are just a few signs that this is starting to happen.

To get back on topic, I hope the Mid Hants have a very successful gala. I am hoping to visit after I have completed my duties at the WSR.

David

 

Re: MHR Spring gala 25-27 March 2011 City Of Truto 3440 & Earl Of Berkley 9017

Exactly. I don't know why the heritage movement think they have an absolute right to move whatever, wherever and whenever they like.

 

Re: MHR Spring gala 25-27 March 2011 City Of Truto 3440 & Earl Of Berkley 9017

So it is quite in order for Notworkfail to break their statutory obligations because it does not suit them? It does not suit me to pay Council Tax so it will be in order for me to cease paying because it no longer suits me then.

rightaway's comments would be offensive if they were not so funny and, if the heritage movement offend him so, why is he on here?

 

Re: MHR Spring gala 25-27 March 2011 City Of Truto 3440 & Earl Of Berkley 9017

Network Rail don't have to run a railway to please everyone. They have to run a railway for the franchise holders and there other major customers. Why should it have every route in Britain available for a King to run down? This isn't a view prejudiced against the preservation movement it's a view founded in realism. Rightaway's comments aren't as blinkered as others who have commented on this.

 

Re: MHR Spring gala 25-27 March 2011 City Of Truto 3440 & Earl Of Berkley 9017

One thing the guage issue puts into doubt is the need for the Mid hants to retain a rail connection with Network Rail . If the loading guage is not suffice to allow the passage of steam locos and remember please that the King is already in a lower version that as built then is there a point for its retention?
If for stock movements and track machines then as long as its cost is of no real significance then retain it . If visiting steam locos or even the MHRs own eg Lord Nelson etc cant now use the line from Alton to Farnham and beyond then is there a point at which its removed.
David

 

Re: MHR Spring gala 25-27 March 2011 City Of Truto 3440 & Earl Of Berkley 9017

Neil_Scott, As your position seems to be that of an apologist for the pathetic shambles that is Network Rail consider the following:

Talk about missing the point! They do have a legal requirement to maintain structures and gauging to pre 1992 standards. They cannot even maintain the network to reasonable standards, I pointed out a potential danger at a station near me over 12 months ago that is both a quick and easy fix. Have they taken action? No they would rather wait for an inevitable accident before moving themselves, just like Potters Bar.

 

Re: MHR Spring gala 25-27 March 2011 City Of Truto 3440 & Earl Of Berkley 9017

I'm not an apologist, I'm being realistic about the state of the railway industry. You need to follow your own logic and look back at some of my posts and Rightaway's posts.

Regarding what you've pointed out - I have no idea what you're on about as you don't provide any details about it!

Edit: It's probably worth recapping that 6024 isn't attending the gala because of a pathing problem, not a problem with the gauge of the locomotive. Perhaps this particular topic has run its course?

 

Re: MHR Spring gala 25-27 March 2011 City Of Truto 3440 & Earl Of Berkley 9017

You are right, once again because they are incompetent and never do anything in a timely fashion Network Rail have cocked up and thats the bottom line and nothing else can be said!

 

Re: MHR Spring gala 25-27 March 2011 City Of Truto 3440 & Earl Of Berkley 9017

Correct; they have to provide railway infrastructure and services according to their statutory responsibilities. That means maintaining the network to the appropriate gauge. Over several years they have failed to do this.

If the KIng or any other loco is within gauge, it should be able to run.

 

Re: MHR Spring gala 25-27 March 2011 City Of Truto 3440 & Earl Of Berkley 9017

Again, spot on.

And think of all the complaints from the major customers, and passengers, when you've got rail replacement or no services on Sundays, major renewals jobs overrunning, inconveniencing people just to run a steam engine down a line that may never happen again. It isn't economically viable, and it isn't a bright thing to do. I would much rather have the design offices working on projects that need to happen rather than something which is quite frankly, pie in the sky.

 

Re: MHR Spring gala 25-27 March 2011 City Of Truto 3440 & Earl Of Berkley 9017

Would the King have been historically in gauge anyway? I have always understood that the Kings were built to take advantage of the generous GWR loading gauge and hence could not be expected "to fity" everywhere.

That doesn't address the separate point that having to design smaller rail vehicles for the UK adds a fortune to the cost of rolling stock, contributes to overcrowding by making extra carriages unaffordable (the official DafT stance now) and therefore work should progress when possible to increase gauge to benefit both passenger and freight, rather than making vehicles getting smaller and smaller. Cramped interiors on recent stock makes for a poorer passenger experience despite some quite impressive mechanical and reliability characteristics!

Steven

 

Re: MHR Spring gala 25-27 March 2011 City Of Truto 3440 & Earl Of Berkley 9017

Reading the for and against of this part of the thread, it would appear that both sides have valid points:

Regards
Chris:

 

Re: MHR Spring gala 25-27 March 2011 City Of Truto 3440 & Earl Of Berkley 9017

If there is a requirement that the loading gauge be maintained to a historic standard (which there is), then any restriction to the gauge is due to either poor design (most unlikely as the design documentation would be available to any litigants and make claims for compensation very easy) or the RE is not properly checking contractors to ensure compliance with the design parameters. The supervision of contractors and sub-contractors has been a constant problem since privatisation and the fragmentation of the regional civil engineering departments. Once the RE has signed off work, the waters get very murky; lawyers would enjoy swimming in them though!

 

Re: MHR Spring gala 25-27 March 2011 City Of Truto 3440 & Earl Of Berkley 9017

Both visiting locos are still going to be facing smoke box out of Alresford.

Nice to see 31806 in action today

 

Re: MHR Spring gala 25-27 March 2011 City Of Truto 3440 & Earl Of Berkley 9017

That's a silly reply to make and your taking my post out of all context.

It's the Alton to Aldershot section line today but next time it could be the S&C line or another popular line that steam charters use and then everyone would be jumping up and down if a steam charter was unable to traverse a pericular line

 

Re: MHR Spring gala 25-27 March 2011 City Of Truto 3440 & Earl Of Berkley 9017

MHR site now updated with revised timetable and allocations.http://www.watercressline.co.uk/News/Latest/View/456
It appears that 3717 and 9017 are going to be "joined at the hip" for most of the event. That's not a complaint I hasten to add. Really looking forward to Friday and Saturday.

 

Re: MHR Spring gala 25-27 March 2011 City Of Truto 3440 & Earl Of Berkley 9017

No one is advocating that every route in Britain should be gauged for a king to run down, merely Network rail to maintain the clearances so that we have some chance of keeping our locos in gauge. After all the King in question has been "lowered" to allow it to fit a certain gauge. It appears that this gauge is now being eroded. If a TOC found that a route was no longer available to one of their trains then they would be up in arms and demanding compensation, not to mention the disruption to passengers.

Steam loco operators are paying customers of Network Rail so surely they should be afforded the same rights of access.

 

Re: MHR Spring gala 25-27 March 2011 City Of Truto 3440 & Earl Of Berkley 9017

Link to timetable document from this page
http://www.watercressline.co.uk/Events/68
doesn't seem to be working.

EDIT: Timetable link has now been taken off, presumably to allow new visiting loco to be included

Not sure if I'll be able to make it. Anyway, the last time I visited, the Standard 5 mangled its cylinder so maybe safer for everyone else if I stayed at home!

Richard

 

Re: MHR Spring gala 25-27 March 2011 City Of Truto 3440 & Earl Of Berkley 9017

The timetable worked for me about an hour ago.

 

Re: MHR Spring gala 25-27 March 2011 City Of Truto 3440 & Earl Of Berkley 9017

I think the loco allocations will be all change again! You'll have to keep an eye on the website.