Mid Hants Preservation Society Gifted LBSCR Coaches

According to the VCT survey http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=288 660 is a 4 compartment 1st. In the photo it looks to have been in good condition, albeit 10 years ago.

 

Just one or two questions to ask. All the coaches are six wheelers. Is there any under frames/wheel sets that can be used or will new under frames and wheels sets need to be made? Anyone like to consider how long it would take to bring these coaches back in to service.

Cheers

 

I think 660 is probably of the same diagram and batch as 661 on the Bluebell Railway:

http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=289

Out of interest for the MHR folks: does the railway have a plan for underframes?

Tom

 

not historic i know but most likely option would be to use PMV under frames, and converting them to 4 wheel, there are quite a few 6 wheelers that got converted to 4 wheelers

 

To quote from the Blog:
"Not one to wait for something simply to happen, Colin Chambers has already made moves to source chassis for the two longer vehicles. These will be from PMVs."

 

I wouldn't want to hazard a guess, but anecdotally, I gather that LBSCR Stroudley coaches are considerably more complex to restore than LCDR ones of similar vintage. In part that is because the LCDR coaches (teak) generally stand up to 80 years out in the elements better than the LBSCR coaches (mahogany), so require less replacement material. Secondly, the relatively impecunious LCDR tended to build carriages with lots of straight edges (e.g. to window frames etc) whereas the more prosperous LBSCR tended towards lots more curves and subtle shapes, so the woodworking required is more complex. That's a very edited view picked up from talking to Bluebell C&W people who have restored both types of carriage.

Tom

 

That is pretty well spot on Tom! LCDR coaches are much better from a restoration and maintenance point of view. LBSCR doors being particularly complex.

 

Hello,
They will not last if they do not get covered storage.
This appears to be a big problem on the MHR.
Will wait and see!


Nick

 

Let's hope once the restoration starts there's a move by the railway to put these coaches under cover. I wonder if this is already under consideration by the railway management. Don't forget this has only just gone public and there could be more information to be released by the railway at a later date.

 

What about asking for the LSWR T3 or Boxhill from the NRM.

 

the Bluebell has a long standing aim to recreate a train of Brighton 4-wheelers. the carriages so far restored are beyond superlatives and quite wonderful! their light weight makes them ideal for the smaller locos - however until Fenchurch and Stepney are returned to operational service they are a bit odd behind other locos. progress on the current LBSCR Bluebell coaches under restoration seems to have stalled a bit - unless someone can contradict me!

the obvious location for the 'Eastleigh' ex Hayling Island coaches except the brake van (which would be ideal for the Bluebell's heritage rake) would be the IOWSR on ex-PMV chassis's with westinghouse air brakes.

the MHR is objectively an odd choice for small LBSCR coaches, but influenced by other factors.

the LBSCR Stroudley and Billinton 4-wheelers transferred to the IOW in 1924 and 1925 only lasted till 1931, so have quite a short chapter in the history of IW carriages.

the impending delivery to the IOWSR of former LBSCR inspection saloon 7996 (referred to by A.B. MacLeod in 'Rails in the Isle of Wight') will be a most interesting acquisition! the rapid progress on the restoration of LBSCR 4115 is extremely impressive! Gary Walker and his team at Havenstreet deserve the utmost praise for their hard work and the very high standards achieved in keeping the old IW carriages in superb condition. the MHR has a high standard to try and emulate in respect of the 'Eastleigh' ex-Hayling Island LBSCR coaches. the IOWSR has excellent storage undercover facilities and undercover workshop restoration facilities.

cheers,
julian

 

Good to see the MHR having a Damascene conversion! Hope they are ready for the annual re-varnishing which is de rigeur at Havenstreet even after the provision of covered storage accomodation. Before the latter came, the rolling stock was put away for the winter under tailored tarpaulin "overcoats" which were a bit of a substitute for a carriage shed. even if labour intensive.

Withe all the advantage of hindsight, what a pity this course of action was not investigated decades ago when there might have been some L.S.W.R. bodies around.

Incidentally the IOWSR has only one coaching vehicle which does not have a genuine Isle of Wight history prior to preservation.

Whilst we are here, a quick look at the sites quoted in Gary Walker's posting on this thread will show Havenstreet's activities in restoring/maintaining wooden bodied stock.

Paul H.

 

It certainly hasn't stalled - there are two LBSCR carriages currently undergoing overhaul. However, as alluded to above, Stroudley carriages are a considerably more complex proposition than many others. As an example, it is likely that by time 949 (a brake third) is outshopped within the next couple of years, three LCDR carriages will have been completed in the workshop over the same period.

A quick totting up of the four and six wheel carriages from the SER / LCDR / LSWR / LBSCR that are currently available for traffic (on the Bluebell, IoWSR and KESR) gives the following:

LCDR - 8 (one is SECR to LCDR design)
LBSCR Stroudley - 1
LBSCR Billinton - 1
LSWR - 0
SER - 0

To some extent that shows the complexity of restoring Stroudley carriages: that despite the combined expertise of the Bluebell, IoWSR and KESR C&W departments, there is only one Stroudley vehicle currently available for service.

It also shows one of the real gaps in preservation is LSWR vehicles! (Hint hint, MHR...) Even if you include bogie carriages as well (in which case quite a number of additional SECR vehicles come into play), there is only one LSWR carriage available for traffic anywhere in the country.

Tom

 

Covered accommodation is a problem for all coaches on the MHR, not just the current stock, the Hayling group gave these bodies to the mid hants, it was their choice, so talk of they should have gone to Havenstreet is just not fair, i have every respect to what Gary has achieved, but at the end of the day the owners decided who to gift them to, i dare say that the first person the project leader will be phoning will be Gary, to get his advise and to invite him to take a trip to Eastleigh,
2 of the bodies appear to be 1st's down graded to 3rd's one of these looks to be the one that due to be stripped , that would be a pity,as it would be good to restore both, one as a 3rd, the other as a 1st, to show how different they were in comfort between the classes.

 

This is excellent news to break the monotony of Mk1 coaches at the MHR. 499 in original Urie LSWR guise will go well (if not a touch large). Maybe the excellent relationship between the MHR and the NRM could be used to prise either the T3 or M7 down south for a full restoration? Until now, this would have been pointless but these coaches could now make that dream a reality! Now that would be a coupe!

Maybe the Bluebell would be willing to let the Adams Radial move west?

 

I think the replies have been pretty tongue in cheek on this regard!

I do agree that these coaches will be a little out of place with the current image of the MHR, but may prove a stimulus for change, just as 499 in original Urie form might.

 

Easiest & cheapest way to get round the lack of suitable motive power?.............

Staple the bodies to PMV frames, do as little as possible to the interiors, paint them in departmental colours & run them in an engineers train, Simples!

(hows that for tongue in cheek?...................... )