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Mid Hants Railway Operational Matters

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by NightRail, Jan 11, 2017.

  1. LC2

    LC2 Member

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    That's not what I said. If you look at post 3074, what I actually said was:
    "It seems to work well enough that way and allows the admins to ensure it's not spammed / abused."
    @ady's post 3078
    "Maybe cause open pages are more likely to get hacked? The North Staffordshire Railway Carriage People got hacked last month."
    seems to vindicate the stance to me.

    I'm not sure whether either the person who runs the 80150 group, or undertakes the Facebook updates are even on Nat Pres, so I doubt you'll get a response from them, but as @21B says, it's not the only way they communicate updates.

    @Monkey Magic the About for the group is:
    "THIS IS NOT A GROUP RUN BY THE MID HANTS RAILWAY WHO OWN 80150. THE 'FRIENDS OF 80150' ARE A SEPARATE SUPPORT GROUP.
    80150 is a BR Standard 4 tank locomotive built in 1956 and now resident at the Mid Hants Railway - 'The Watercress Line'.
    The locomotive only ran for 9 years before being sent for scrap in 1965. 80150 survived the scrapyard and arrived at the MHR in 2011 but with many parts missing and having been left in the open air for nearly half a century.
    The 'Friends of 80150' was set up in late 2016 with the aim of conserving and restoring 80150, which began in early 2017.
    Updates on working parties, news and future events will be posted here."

    So that's a little info on the loco, with the stated purpose of the group being to update members when the next working party or event will be (such as don't bother coming today, it hissing down with rain). Yes other topics are discussed, but on NP, that would be decried as going "off topic".


    Anyway, I guess those who refuse to use Facebook are always going to disagree with those who do use it, so there isn't much point in prolonging this discussion.
    I would add one thing though. If you want to keep facebook's cookies off your pc/phone, then you want to avoid anything facebook related regardless of whether it's open or closed.
     
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  2. goldfish

    goldfish Part of the furniture

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    I'm pretty sure that's not true.

    Any account anywhere is vulnerable to hacking if you have a rubbish password. Eg If you use the same password in more than one service, and one of those places leaks all its data, every account using those credentials is vulnerable.

    It's most likely that whoever administered the North Staffs account used similar credentials on another site that leaked onto the internet (not a Facebook, more like a NatPres type affair), and the first thing the automated hackers do is take all those credentials and try them on the big sites like Facebook and Twitter.

    Hackers aren't people in dark rooms with their caps on backwards, they're collections of computers running automated processes that look for obvious weaknesses and exploit them.

    Simon
     
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  3. ady

    ady New Member

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    Fair enough
     
  4. City of truro fan

    City of truro fan New Member

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    My research I saw a picture of the MHR on watercress day. It look as busy as Paddington! There is definite enough people go there to make it worth an extension one day.
     
  5. Llwyngwern

    Llwyngwern Member

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    There is a little more involved in research than looking at a single photograph.
     
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  6. City of truro fan

    City of truro fan New Member

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    There are several pictures of it happening I didn’t mean it to sound like just one
     
  7. 61624

    61624 Well-Known Member

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    What you need to be looking at is pictures taken on a selection of normal "everyday" days. Special events can give a very distorted impression.
     
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  8. 21B

    21B Part of the furniture

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    Watercress festival is very busy carrying people into Alresford from Ropley on a park and ride scheme. The railway runs the service as a contribution to the community event and makes no profit from it. Worth noting too that people wouldn't want to go any further than Alresford even if the railway was there.

    Without wanting to kick off a perennial debate....there is no justification for extending the railway. The annual maintenance cost of every extra mile would be at least £25k. So a 3 mile extension say would have to earn £75k per year more than the railway does without the extension. That's roughly 1875 more families.

    Make the line longer and the train mileage increases. It probably doesnt go up in a linear manner, but let us say a 25% increase in mileage gives a 10% rise in costs. That's another £100k to find. That's another 2500 families to find.

    So, very conservatively a 3 mile extension has to find 4375 more families (17500 people) more every year just to stand still, and that doesnt begin to repay the cost of construction which would very very conservatively be £1M per mile. You have to be very very sure that more people will want to travel on the railway for ever more before embarking on an extension.

    Recent experience from railways that have extended is quite mixed on the sustainability of the passenger increase.

    The other factor to consider is what could you do with the £3M (if you could raise it) other than build an extension. Carriage sheds, loco overhauls, carriage restorations, museum buildings, special events, ..... all these probably have more chance to either save money (protecting rolling stock from the weather) or attract more visitors than the extension .

    Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk
     
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  9. Andrew McCallum

    Andrew McCallum New Member

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    I totally agreee with the above around Ten Miles is just about perfect for the Mid Hants , gives the passengers just about the right amount of time on the train with two step hill climbs . Also the line can run intensive services for galas using all four stations. A longer line means greater upkeep , more bridges , crossings to maintain greater ware and tear on the rolling stock and locos. Also we have the restrictions of the light railway orders 25mph restriction, which means any preserved line cannot really compete with buses cars ect for standard traffic.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 18, 2021
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  10. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    Good point, but again, perhaps it would be more appropriately posted in the MHR thread?

    Also, you might want to check the appearance of your posts after clicking the 'Post Reply' button (I use 'Preview' on more complex posts); there's an editing error in this one which included your comment in with the post being replied to.

    Noel
     
  11. 73129

    73129 Member

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    Just to give a heads up. ULS Stovepipe magazine arrived this morning.
     
  12. Shaggy

    Shaggy Well-Known Member

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    Arrived and a very good read it was as well (as usual).
     
  13. domeyhead

    domeyhead New Member

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    That was the subject of a lot of soul searching on the Bluebell railway when they were looking to remove Imberhorne tip and reconnect to East Grinstead. The economics were even more frightening than any equivalent westbound mileage on the MHR towrds Itchen Abbas - but I know that I and many many other railway supporters are mighty glad the Bluebell let their hearts rule their heads, and I believe so far the increased revenue has outpaced increased costs. It may only be a pipe dream on the MHR but if the chance ever came to extend westwards again and despite the arguments against doing it, I and thousands of others still hope they do it!
     
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  14. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    Of course, one's view of the future almost cannot be perfect, but.. I suspect that it's not purely by chance that that happy result ("increased revenue ... increased costs") happened. The Bluebell strikes me as a line that puts a lot of thought, consideration and calculation into all their actions - no matter how much their hearts influence their choices of goals.

    Noel
     
  15. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I don't think it is quite as clear cut as that. In the Bluebell's case, going from Kingscote to East Grinstead was really a case of going from "nowhere" to "somewhere". But the MHR has already, in a sense, done the equivalent extension by going to Alton. Heading west, the obvious "somewhere" is Winchester, but since that is clearly unobtainable, anywhere short just risks extending into the middle of nowhere. At which point you do increase your costs without an obvious source of extra traffic. For the MHR to go to Itchen Abbas would be a bit like a Bluebell extension to Newick - hard to see exactly what is gained.

    There are also operational and timetable considerations. In our case, we can't run an hourly, two train service - it is stretched out 75min, which isn't ideal. That is primarily on account of the location of passing places, but has to be factored in. The MHR has a little more flexibility in that regard as it has slightly closer stations, but you would certainly have to consider how the timetable worked.

    The other issue is secondary spend. At the moment, the primary opportunities for that on the MHR are at the terminus, i.e. shop and cafe at Alresford. The risk if you went to Itchen Abbas would be people choosing to start and finish their day there, and maybe bypassing Alresford altogether.

    Ultimately, there is not a perfect answer: the critical thing is that any such projects are approached eyes wide open, and have the committed backing of the membership, but in a way that makes the membership fully aware of the likely risks of such big projects.

    Tom
     
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  16. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Why on earth would the MHR go further west? What is to be gained? In the case of the Bluebell it was a main line connection as the prize at East Grinstead plus a decent centre of population. On the MHR there is nowhere worth extending to.

    What they could use is a little more siding space at Alresford but haven't they already sold off that potential?
     
  17. City of truro fan

    City of truro fan New Member

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    The bluebell railway extension made them have to get diesels which was a big and unhappy change. The MHR already has a diesel so it won’t upset as many people. They could always build a museum at itching Abbas if they ever went there which could be about many things
     
  18. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    There will be nothing to be gained from any extension, the chance of extending went years ago, Had the railway purchased the track bed, from Alresford to Winchester Junction, when it purchased the track bed from Ropley to Alton , then maybe, who knows, but its now a non starter, for several very expensive reasons, the railway does not need to extend, at 10 miles, its about right, The only thing i would want to see is for the track to be doubled from Alton to the butts, and signalled so up and down departures can pass at line speed outside Alton, on galas etc, and maybe some use of the butts triangle of land for a turntable if one ever becomes available, So it becomes possible to turn visiting engines off the mainline. assuming the land can be filled and levelled to get a good surface
     
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  19. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    There's a nice one at Barry I believe :D
     
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  20. 21B

    21B Part of the furniture

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    There is a very long term aspiration to double the track to Butts if at all possible. However, the turntable would be unlikely due to ground conditions.

    Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk
     

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