Mid Hants Railway Operational Matters

I think it will cope with damp mornings quite well, at least as well as the Hampshire Unit, and far far better than a Pacer. It isn’t so much the “up” as the “down” that bothers me. Stopping a 14x unit on a slippy day on the bank might be more exciting than is desirable.

 

We are. Hence this appeal.

https://gofund.me/ae7587b0

 

Yep, I'm aware of the appeal but this yet one more item of rolling stock that will need to be undercover. I wish the railway well, but I do wonder why this item was accepted - and yes I under that today's rolling stock will one day be considered heritage.

 

Because we will find it useful in all sorts of ways, both in telling the story of railways and offering services that the railway finds difficult when the only alternative is a locomotive and carriages both of which at times are at an expensive premium.

A low hours unit, that is a self contained train, with a long life in front of it, which fits with the heritage objectives and offers a cost effective means of strengthening the services we run. That’s why.

 

Lighten up! Who would say no to a donated unit?

 

I think it's a great move by the line! It'll certainly create some interest and bring in enthusiasts. And it's quite literally a first in preservation - the younger enthusiasts like myself see this as heritage in it's own right because it will be our heritage, what we grew up with.

 

Paint it BR green with speed whiskers and see who you confuse...

 

I know you’re joking, but it was suggested and rightly rejected. The livery it has is now historic and will bring memories even for the middle aged like me. I hadn’t taken my o levels when these started appearing, and my children are now at University! The first gen units started being preserved around the same time, roughly 25 to 30 years after introduction. The sprinters are massively successful. 150231 was still in service a month ago!

 

What next for the Mid-Hants? Third rail electrification and emus?

Bryan - pleased to be a dinosaur - B

 

Hopefully, that'll get people grumbling!

 

Never mind that

‘the first heritage railway in the UK to operate a second-generation Diesel Multiple Unit.‘

I’m struggling to see how this is true unless we’re ignoring the GCR (though I suppose they’re not passenger facing) *and* have somehow decided that Pacers are first generation…

 

I think the error has been realised as that claim has been removed.

 

108s, which seemed to be in traffic forever, were a little over 30 years old when they started to be preserved. 150231 is 37/38 years old! So long as it's kept weather tight (water running getting between the seal and the cabside windows and collecting in the underframe is a favourite for Mk3 bodied multiple units) then it should last a long while.

 

Between 1985 and 1990 I was involved with the production of some of the 150's Does that make me a relic?

 

I think the 150 is good news.

A free unit, and early starts from Alton are appreciated!

People need to realise that we didn't all grow up with steam in the 1960s. These units are from my childhood in the 1980s and 1990s!

My only problem is the existential crisis from things my age now being preserved...

What livery are they going for?

 

I wonder how many people will look and think, its too young to be preserved, when its already older than many other DMU's when they were withdrawn,
Will the introduction, of this unit lead to a reduction of steam haulage in the longer term, Short term, yes, one dmu, 1 steam working, as the MHR is short of motive power and will remain so, until the standard 4, and 34007 returrn, but thats got to be weighted by the ivatt, and S15, coming out eventually, so the fleet is not going to suddenly get better,

 

My gut feeling is to score it on three criteria:

• Economic to operate? Probably, at least all the time spares are available
• Heritage? Yes, the case seems to have been made that it is appropriate for the area (not my field to judge, but I'll take other's word for it).
• Attractive to the core market? Hmmm ...

It's the third point I think I struggle with. My feeling is that for many visitors, they want "old", and while they may not know what that means in specific terms, they know it when they see it.

Accepting that there is a role for diesels and diesel multiple units in preservation, my gut feeling about that "old / not old" transition is marked by the doors: if it has slam doors, it is old; if it has push-button operated doors, it isn't. So my worry is that a unit like that on a preserved line is just insufficiently differentiated from the type of unit you could catch at your local station to really appeal. At which point, other concerns come to the fore, such as whether it is desirable to keep collecting new stuff when most lines can't adequately store or look after the stuff they already have.

I realise that viewpoint - if I am correct - leads to a position whereby not all heritage is equally viable: some more modern items of rolling stock might have impeccable historical reasons why they should be preserved, but will just be unattractive to the majority of organisations who might preserve them.

Tom

 

All well and good, but where will the Mid-Hants have all their steam locos towed to? I think the old Barry Docks area is now mostly industrial units.

Bryan

 

Unusually I find myself in total disagreement with you Tom. Well, perhaps not total. I don’t think that the third point is all that relevant. Let me explain why.

1. The Watercressline does a different job and carries different expectations from its customers than the Bluebell (where I think a 150 would a jarring imposition on the scene). The mix of traction types normally in use means that we are already providing a different type of experience.
2. The 150 will offer a cost effective way to get people from Alton especially, to a point where they can see and experience the rest of the railway. Depending on the day upto 50% of the traffic originates at Alton, but it is operationally more difficult to start a steam service from there, and most operating days do not justify two steam engines from a cost perspective.
3. Ropley is the most interesting part of the railway, but unlike Sheffield Park it is not a starting point for customers who start at one or other of the ends (>99%). This it is important to be able to shuttle people in and out of Ropley so as to allow them an opportunity of a complete round trip behind steam.
4. We have missed (operationally) a DMU since the Hampshire unit had to be temporarily retired.
5. Mk1 carriages are increasingly expensive to overhaul and increasingly need overhaul. Some pressure can be taken off this fleet by using a DMU.
6. The purpose of the unit is not to provide in itself a draw, but will I think be a bit more utilitarian at least at the start. In this respect it is no different to the Hampshire unit which was similarly so when it arrived. Right back to the early 2000s when we had the 117 and 121 and DMMUs were a great deal less popular or acceptable than now (25years on!) there was never any evidence in the ticket sales that the DMU or later DEMU discouraged riders. Typically they added sufficient to cover their own costs at a minimum. Used in conjunction with the rest of the experience I think the 150 will be immediately useful, though I do agree good communication is important.
7. The train is being donated along with so I gather a spares package.
8. A more modern unit offers some interesting possibilities with regards to training and vocational education.

The arguments you have advanced were the same when the 117 was acquired and again with Hammy. They were the same with the class 50, the 47 and the 20s. In fact I have even heard arguments that the 350hp shunters aren’t very heritage, despite the fact that the 11 is older than most of the steam engines present on the line!

Meanwhile sat on Alresford station on a day with both steam and class47 haulage a quite ordinary (ie not enthusiasts) family were considerably more enthusiastic about the arrival of the 47 than the steam engine and passed comment that it was nice to see the diesels getting used as that is what they recalled from their childhood. Nostalgia is a key part of what we sell, perhaps more so than the Bluebell which is far more of a museum of the distant past (and fabulously so in my view), but there is room for several approaches.

 

That would make the LU 1938 stock (and the 1925 standard stock, if it ever runs again), modern...
I'll grant you London is different, but it makes you think.

In NI, the preserved line is running diesel units that are based on the same bodyshell (albeit with different engine layouts)

My rule of thumb on this is that it's hard to tell. My dad tells of spotting in 1960s Nottingham and asking another spotter if there is anything going on "nothing, just a bunch of standards" was the reply.

I suspect the bigger test is whether it triggers memories. I'll trot a reasonable distance to grice a hoover, but a class 47 is a resounding "meh" from me.

Do people have strong memories of sprinters in their early days? I remember reading an article in "Rail Riders" magazine and being interested.