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Mid Hants Railway Operational Matters

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by NightRail, Jan 11, 2017.

  1. Enterprise

    Enterprise Well-Known Member

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    This misapprehension has become widespread. It is not so. Judgements of hazards, risks and mitigations have to be considered together and consequent plans must be reasonable.
     
  2. 21B

    21B Well-Known Member

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    The MHR is not a public footpath. It is an operational railway. Even when you take away the trains there remains a number of risks which do not exist on the average footpath. Slips, trips and falls are more likely due to the uneven ground, ballast, sleepers and rails. Even the cess which is generally the safest place to walk is not completely even and there are drains, troughing runs and other hazards. Where there are points the trip hazard is greater still.

    As someone else has pointed out the railway has a duty of care to those undertaking the walk. Such a duty doesnt apply in most instances to people using a public right of way when not part of an organised group. It is essential to have a plan in case there is an injury.

    The railway is difficult to access for a great deal of its length as it is either in a cutting or on a high embankment. There are no parallel roads at grade and no level crossings. If a rail vehicle were used as part of an evacuation plan, then you have untrained people in section when you are trying to operate a train. Even if you go dead slow this is very risky.

    The world we live in today is considerably less tolerant of organisations that put people at risk. That is the reality and whether we like it or not is irrelevant. A serious injury or death on the property of an organisation that could be reasonably expected to foresee such an occurrence (however infrequent it might happen and regardless of past history) would be at best damaging and at worst catastrophic for the reputation and future of the organisation. In any case it would have a human cost that probably none of us would consider acceptable. Surely we want everyone to go home from a visit to a Heritage Railway in the same condition they arrived?

    Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk
     
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  3. martin1656

    martin1656 Part of the furniture Friend

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    I have a question about the locomotive situation , and overhauls, at the moment the only engine coming out of service in the next 12 months is the 9F, and that's going to back to Crewe for overhaul, i'm imagining that 35005 will be the next engine to return then I would imagine in the meanwhile the boiler shop will be focussing on 850 what state is nelson in mechanically? the boiler I believe has needed a lot of work just to see it through its ticket, so will it need less work this time round? the next loco due out of traffic is 41312 , in I believe 4 years I would imagine the ideal replacement will be 75078, or 73096 , dependent on which has the fastest turn round, ( the 5 is complete and a known quantity) after that Cheltenham will become due, so again, either 34105, or either of the standards with 80150 and the BB Being the last two new restoration projects to be tackled. is there a list of when engines become due for ten year overhauls, and what engine is likily to replace them when their tickets run out?
     
  4. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    Any reason why 41312 should not be overhauled straight out of service? Would seem to make sense unless it was a total basket case.
     
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  5. Swan Age

    Swan Age New Member

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    I thought 41312 entered traffic on this current ticket in 2016 same as 76017, so should be good until 2026. It is currently undergoing an intermediate repair as the chassis was barely touched during the last overhaul.

    Did you not see Martin the MHR strategic loco plan of Jan 2018?

    35005 and 34105 back in traffic by mid 2021 or sooner. 30850 overhaul to start once 30506 is outshopped. 75079 by 2024 and 73096 by 2025. Obviously plans change and evolve, however broadly speaking things will be in line with what was published I suspect.
     
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  6. domeyhead

    domeyhead New Member

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    I encounter this a lot in my professional life too. Risk is not an absolute. You cannot remove risk from anything. The question is, what is reasonable? If you try and eradicate risk you remove everything enjoyable from life. We cannot have shows or fetes or fairs because of the risks endemic in large crowds. So is that it? The sponsored walk is now gone forever because of trip hazards? Who, having been informed of risks they are perfectly capable of recognising for themselves, would then be so minded as to sue the railway, when the entire reason for being there is to support it? Apart from which, what is the point in paying large premiums for liability insurance to safeguard against someone reneging on what should be a desire to help? Listing risks is a pointless exercise unless you also factor in probability to define a hazard. Of course you cannot guarantee absolute safety, but as sentient adults we all know this, and like most walkers we have done this many times. As I think I said before, there are many such organised events in places where a body could be considered liable - the New Forest is One gigantic trip hazard with all the problems outlined in the above. Yet the NPA has a full calendar of "lethal" events. I wonder it is not sued on a daily basis :)
     
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  7. 21B

    21B Well-Known Member

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    You are entitled to your opinion. However, it is at odds with guidance from the HMRI. In the judgement of those who bear the responsibility the event could not be staged safely.

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  8. MellishR

    MellishR Well-Known Member Friend

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    Many years ago I attended a presentation about risk perception. Besides the principal two dimensions of risk ̶ how likely something is to happen and how bad it is if it does happen ̶ there are several dozen (I forget the number but it might have been 57) additional factors that affect peoples' perception of a risk. These are such things as:
    Is a risk to me under my own control or something that is inflicted on me?
    Does it affect strong healthy adults or innocent babies?
    Is it something that I can see and understand, like being hit by a bus, or something invisible like radiation?
    The combined effect of all these factors heavily outweighs likelihood and severity.
    All that is before you start on the business of liability and potential lawsuits.
     
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  9. Shaggy

    Shaggy Member

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    Unfortunately I see the loss of the walk on the MHR to be the first of many on our heritage lines. We live in a "blame culture" world and even when those who take part do so for the benefit of the railway and understand what risks can be found on an operational railway, should the unthinkable happen you can be assured that the "where there's a blame, there's a claim" will come knocking and it won't just be them pressurising the injured party. Not everyone has family members and friends who are so passionate about our railway heritage. They will see :Greedy::Greedy: and will pursuing their "right to claim". Even if a claim were to fail, the negative publicity on the railway would be both detrimental financially and reputationally damaging. Look at some of the cases that have gone against the big railway in recent years? Most of us would claim that common sense would have mitigated against and prevented some of these claims and they should never have reached the level they did, but that I'm afraid is now a thing of the past as, (instilled into us now) "what might be common to me, won't be for someone else".

    It is a real pity that it has happened this year as I usually work weekends and cannot therefore partake however, this year it fell on by long weekend off so was hoping to pop along to do my bit. Looks like that's another one I'll have to scrub off my bucket list.
     
  10. Shaggy

    Shaggy Member

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    Where I wonder does 45379 and 34007 fall into this?
    The line has been very successful in recent years to acquire useful locos to ensure its ability to survive but could it now be said that it is reaching saturation point where they have more locos on the line than can reasonably be turned around or in the case of Sir Fred, ever restored with third party locos also requiring maintenance and restoration?

    I love the line and the locos that grace it and would hate to see the likes of the NRM pair or the S15's leave or even any of the home fleet sold as this variety adds to the lines appeal.
     
  11. Enterprise

    Enterprise Well-Known Member

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    HMRI guidance (The Blue Book) was superseded by ORR guidance several years ago.
     
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  12. martin1656

    martin1656 Part of the furniture Friend

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    The black 5 was bought and restored as a replacement for the Standard 5, because no one ever thought that the Standard loco would ever once the loan agreement ended come back, and of course the problem with 3rd party loco's the owner can always decide to move them, so it made sence to ensure you had some that were owned by the railway, , as regards 34007, wasn't this loco going to be moved off site and the overhaul done away from the MHR ? I'm wondering if when 35005 moves from Eastleigh to MHR, that 34007 don't move in the other direction, its only a short run after all and a single low loader should be able do all the moves
     
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  13. Shaggy

    Shaggy Member

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    I agree, the MHR have done a cracking job of securing its future with their purchases and yes, 3rd party owners can always do what they want with their assets once a loan agreement is over. I seem to remember hearing discussion about 34007 being worked on away from Ropley but no mention of Eastleigh. It would make sense as long as the works have space but would it not have to be a rail move? Can't recall seeing anything bigger than a 08 going over Campbell Road bridge although of course CanPac's boiler has been over it. Having a good reputation with a place like Eastleigh works will definitely pay off for faster turnarounds.
     
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  14. martin1656

    martin1656 Part of the furniture Friend

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    only the last bit into the works would be a rail move, but the wheels and tyres will still need an ultra sonic test done just for that short bit engine only by low loader, could pick up CP at the same time as 34007 is unloaded at Eastleigh, if space is available in the works for Wadebridge
     
  15. 73129

    73129 Member

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    A few photos from today at Butt’s bridge but taken from the field side of the bridge. Work seems to be progressing well.
    22552E01-4591-4361-AD7B-77929DCCD291.jpeg
    6673141C-D54E-472D-8484-510682784EAD.jpeg

    Plus another photo taken from the other side showing a road/railway machine with what looks to be concrete troughing next to it.

    A0161D55-952F-4862-9052-6916D4DA2BA6.jpeg
     
  16. Dunfanaghy Road

    Dunfanaghy Road New Member

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    When I drove past Butts Bridge yesterday there was a 360 m/c on the new span with chains hanging from its dipper (in place of the bucket). Maybe they were laying out sleepers? If so, not quite what I was told a few days ago by the bloke propping up a shovel.
    Pat
     
  17. UP13

    UP13 New Member

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    Taking my little ones tomorrow - is there car parking at Ropley or will I need to go to Arlesford?

    Also which locomotives are operating?
     
  18. Hampshire Unit

    Hampshire Unit Well-Known Member Friend

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    30925 and 92212 are running this weekend. you will need to park at Alresford
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
  19. UP13

    UP13 New Member

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    Cheers.
     
  20. domeyhead

    domeyhead New Member

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    As a project manager, every single project I worked on had to undergo a risk assessment phase for which I was responsible, if not accountable. The above smacks of consultancy or of someone whose job depended on making the subject ever more arcane. "Never declare a subject dealt with unless you can revisit it with endless lucrative revisions to a straightforward concept". A hazard can be factorised by assigning its relative potential for harm and the conditions by which it would occur - the severity of risk multiplied by the probability of its occurrence. You can refine this to some extent by listing the probabilities of prerequisites and so on but anyone claiming 57 (or any number greater than single figures, is either trying to be clever or (more likely) establishing a nice sinecure for themselves. What is happening here is the tiresome but never specified threat of lawyers and legal actions hovering on people whose only intention was to do good. Perform a proper risk assessment, and so long as you are not negligent the event can continue. Risks are always mentioned but never usually qualified or calibrated as seems to have happened in this case. We can talk about "risk" forever, and some do, but when we lose sight of what we are trying to achieve then it has spun out of control.
     
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