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Mk1 ban to be lifted?

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Christopher125, Mar 14, 2011.

  1. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Member

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    Well, perhaps not entirely but according to the Railway Herald (pg13) the ORR are starting a consultation into allowing Mk1's to be used across the network without barrier vechicles, including passengers in the leading vehicle - if this is a success, the viability and attraction of running heritage MU's will surely increase significantly, while making life easier for WCRC and Riviera. What might we see as a result?

    EDIT - just been pointed to this on the ORR website - while obviously aimed at LHCS, there seems no reason for it to apply exclusively.

    Chris
     
  2. chrishallam

    chrishallam New Member

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    One thing I noticed on that however was the following condition:

    No MK 2 or MK 3 vehicles are marshalled at either end of a rake of Mark1 coaches;

    Could be an issue for quite a few support coaches (Riley's, 5305's, the Duke, any others?)
     
  3. Steve

    Steve Part of the furniture Friend

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    Intriguing that a condition for this exemption is that there would be: 'No MK 2 or MK 3 vehicles are marshalled at either end of a rake of Mark1 coaches;'
    Which is exactly what they specify is necessary at the moment? Apparently it is considered that the greater strength of these vehicles can lead to increased damage to a Mk1.
     
  4. oddsocks

    oddsocks Member

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    I notice there's a mention of a 75mph limit, going to make life awkward on Diesel or electric hauled legs of tours I feel.
     
  5. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    and also that all vehicles have upgraded crash pillars ... i dont pnow whether they have or have not.
    Support coaches are not classed as carrying passengers, support crews i guess travel in them at their own risk or can decamp to the rest of the train.
    The implications are for the most part for the mixed rake charter trains (where the 1st class coaches tend to be mk 2's ?)
    and for the few MK2 support vehicles (DOG / 5305la ?) One wonders who or what prompted this. Guess this is potentially good news for Photters
    But might be a bit messy for some of the TOC'S...
     
  6. Robert Heath No.6

    Robert Heath No.6 New Member

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    Interesting, one would have thought a 100+ ton loco with a stonking great solid lump of metal in the middle (ie without a barrier coach) would do more damage to a mk1 than a mk2 would, but there we have it! :lol:
     
  7. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Resident of Nat Pres

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    My understanding was always that the locomotive was considered to be the barrier vehicle at the front of the train and the key barrier was to be provided at the back. This meant either a non-passenger carrying Mark 1 at one end or a Mark 2 as the whole set is not always turned at the destination. The Support Coach also sometimes ends up staying on the "front" when it becomes the "back" on the return. The rear barrier vehicle is not referred to here.

    Nevertheless, the proposal looks very sensible and more or less admits the ban was intended to ensure that the Slam Door EMU stock was replaced in a set timescale. The introduction of TPWS in a similar timescale was always going to reduce the risks arising from less crashworthy vehicles by reducing the risk of crashes!

    The interesting question is whether a new prohibition is being introduced on mixed rakes of Mark 1, 2 and 3, which would certainly cuase some issues for some operators (I suspect that the WCRC Pullmans would be considered to be early Mark 2 in this respect).

    Steven
     
  8. Western Dreamer

    Western Dreamer New Member

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    Might this also smooth the way for services from heritage lines to Network Rail stations? I'm thinking of routes such as Minehead-Taunton and Swanage-Wareham.
     
  9. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    I'm still not sure I see the sense.

    Mark 1s have been on the network for 40+ years running quite safely in any combination.

    I'd take my chances in a Mark 1 over a class 142 pacer or even one of those Parry Pace Makers any day.
     
  10. Robert Heath No.6

    Robert Heath No.6 New Member

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    You have to remember, new = good. There is no debate. Now keep calm and keep smiling. All is good. :lol:
     
  11. buzby2

    buzby2 Member

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    Any further news of the ORR consultations?
     
  12. DUKE71000

    DUKE71000 New Member

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    In the latest Steam Railway mag it says that ORR has reached agreement on new rules dropping the need for non passenger-carrying vehicles at the ends of Mk1 rakes. Having Mk2s on the end of Mk1 rakes is also permitted.
     
  13. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    Does this raise the possibilities of 1st generation DMU's being allowed to go mainline as well ?
     
  14. Stu in Torbay

    Stu in Torbay New Member

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    On the face of it, it would seem this could indeed be a possibility. Although passengers are effectively in the locomotive on a DMU, whereas with loco + stock, there is the loco as a barrier. No idea if this makes matters complicated or not. Hope it could be a possibility. Some of my best rial trips have been in the front of a 1st Gen DMU hurtling along jointed track at 60+ Swansea to Carmarthen rings a bell. As does Exeter - Barnstaple.
     
  15. guard_jamie

    guard_jamie New Member

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    Might also clear up issues for the Brighton Belle project.
     
  16. B17 61606

    B17 61606 New Member

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    Wasn't the real point of the legislation to get rid of the slam-door EMUs operated by Connex etc, i.e. to force operators to remove Mk1 stock from everyday 'normal' service?

    I guess the fact this aim is now complete is opening the door (no pun intended) for slam-door stock on main line heritage services only, perhaps including historic DMUs/EMUs in time?
     
  17. 61624

    61624 Well-Known Member

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    Aren't first generation DMUs already running on NR, in the form of Chiltern Trains bubblecars?
     
  18. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    Yes but Aylesbury is hardly the mainline.

    My memories of 1st gens are 6 and 8 car formations on Manchester -Blackpools and 2 cars on the Southport and Blackburn services.. Then going round Preston on class110s. Did any of the MPV's survive to be preserved?
    Going back slightly further were transpenines and the gangway ended units at Ayr.
    It really only was a few years back that I saw 101s regularly round Manchester.
     
  19. Coboman

    Coboman New Member

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    Isn't there a thumper mainline registered?
     
  20. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    There is indeed, it's next trip is to Loughborough and Butterley in september.
    I believe it was allowed as the engine is mounted behind the drivers cab, rather than underfloor, which classes it as a barrier vehicle. I guess this wouldn't affect it, as I believe it always runs with two or more powered cars anyway.

    A fast ride behind a thumper is a lot of fun.

    http://www.hastingsdiesels.co.uk/railtours/
     

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