modern WHR motive power (what should happen? your views)

What should happen next with the WHR's motive power?
just to bring you up to date on the currant position if you don't already know:
k1 being worked on for a return to service
87 currently in service
109 under restoration at Crewe no timescale set (please dnt talk about her) its to do with Mr Peter Waterman not the WHR.
133 on static display
134 group is steadily now reassembling the loco and the tender body is in store
138 nearing the end of an interim overhaul on its power bogeys due to be completed by autumn.
140 carrying frame in primer, one bogey under 143, other bogey unrestored but complete and tanks and cab remain but tanks said to be unusable.
143 currently in service
castle caneerfon in service.
thats the currant state of affairs

now what should happen next when 138 is running and so is k1, there has been talk of a new diesel which is double the power of CC to cope with full WHR trains without needing constant maintenance or some how rebuilding CC to do so and 134 wont be ready for at least 2 years so what should happen next?


Here's what i think:
the boiler, unrestored 140 bogey and the spare bogey should be restored as spares for 87, 138 and 143 although an imperial to metric adaptor/s may be needed to exchange bogeys between 87 as she is in metric, this means there will be all the important spares for the ng16s for years to come.

As regards to 140 the WHR doesn't need another garret at the moment as they will have 3 which can be rotated to cope with the 2 trains but if a third train became a reality she should be first on the list and if there is a set of bogeys and a boiler ready to go its a easy overhaul really but at the moment its a it would be nice thing atm. If she were restored as we have red, green and blue garrets wouldn't it be a good idea to paint her improved engine green basically baige instead of yellow?

133 should be cosmetically restored with tender and displayed at Dinas.

109 as said at start.
on the diesel front

another Funckey could be found (there is one in Argentina) and that one could be rebuilt with a new v12 engine which would produce 700hp and have its gearbox, transmission box and its final drive boxes beefed up to take the extra power and possible some wight on the bogeys or the chassis to increase adhesion.
Once this has been done to one and all bugs ironed out CC could be rebuilt.

that's what i think if you dnt understand anything please ask and put your views.
Also talk about coaches too if you want im making some mockups f possible new coaches for the whr forum which i will post here if there is interest?
and dnt ask about 109 its a sensitive subject.
thanks
Patrick

 

currEnt
garrAtT
Funkey
Castell Caernarfon

c'mon, it's not that difficult ....

 

Why not volunteer and play an active part rather than play fantasy preserved railway online?

 

If you are considering steam additional to the current roster then you have the choice of i] New build [much discussed in other threads relatingto L&B etc]ii] Buy in a loco of appropriate gauge from abroad [not many left and most will be clapped out and under-powered for the WHR] iii] Buy a loco of a slightly different gauge and rebuild it [a la C2 Project]. Diesels - well you could ask Indian Railways to build you a brand new NDM5 or NDM6 [335hp and 450 hp] or flog you a 2' 6'' loco which will be come redundant through gauge conversion of the remaining ng lines - but they might not be powerful enough for WHR size trains. Perhaps we should see what the C2 Project produce at Boston lodge. There must be other C2s laying around in China.

 

Restore 133 after 134

 

Agree with this!

PH (A volunteer elsewhere)

 

"Restore 133 after 134"

Amen to that!

 

I feel it necessary to point out that the creator of this thread is not in a position to speak with authority on any aspect of the F&WHR, its rolling stock or motive power. As such, statements like: "just to bring you up to date on the currant position if you don't already know" are misleading.

And, just for the record, our locomotives have bogies. Bogeys are usually found up noses.

 

It's total fantasy but I'd love one of the Mallets from the Vivarais to be regauged and find a home on the WHR. Absolutely no idea if it could be done (they're metre gauge currently) but they're powerful, beautiful beasts...

 

Nice one!

 

Personally I'd love to see one brought back from China and not restored, but kept on static display in ex-industrial condition, grime and all. There aren't that many steam locos still doing "real" work in the world today, and once they've gone the distinctive patina of the non-preserved working locomotive will disappear with them. But in the absence of a large amount of money to support this idea, I'll have to let it lie.

As for diesels, rebuilding a Funkey is an interesting idea, but I wonder whether the frames would be sufficiently sturdy to cope with the greater stresses that would be imposed on it by a more powerful engine and longer trains behind the drawbar? We need someone more knowledgeable about engineering to answer that one! In any case, the modifications required would surely be so major that there is little advantage to be gained over starting from scratch, which would give the very talented Boston Lodge engineers a clean sheet to produce a loco tailored to the WHR's requirements.

As for steam locos, the only thing I will say is that I look forward to seeing the NG15 back in steam. The prospect of a new type of loco entering service on the WHR will be another incentive to pay a repeat visit!

Ultimately, I have every confidence that the F&WHR's managers and engineers know what they're doing. Their basic task is simply to use the available resources to provide enough motive power to keep WHR trains running. They have always succeeded up until now and I have no doubt that they will continue to do so.

 

"I feel it necessary to point out that the creator of this thread is not in a position to speak with authority on any aspect of the F&WHR, its rolling stock or motive power. As such, statements like: "just to bring you up to date on the currant position if you don't already know" are misleading.

And, just for the record, our locomotives have bogies. Bogeys are usually found up noses."

I am beginning to think that our Andrew is a bit of a bully.

 

I agree there is no reason for anyone to intentionally try to humiliate someone just because his information is not as accurate as he thought or there are issues with spelling (it would be terrible if somebody on here makes fun of someone who is later found out to be dyslexic and has to use an auto spelling checker that might not recognise railway terminology?). There are tactfull ways of correcting people without causing hurt such as as adding a thank you to the person for his interest and enthusiasm towards the F&WHR for instance.

I would like to add that all the F&WHR volunteers who I know and have worked with are very friendly and welcoming people - I don't want to see a whole railway tarred because of the personality of one representative.

Gareth

 

I often find at times that Andrew comes across fairly poorly on these forums. In many cases I presume that he is trying to be funny but it just does not work down so it comes as being rude. That can happen to any off us but Andrew I believe is the Media Relations Manager at Ffestiniog & Welsh Highland Railways. Smoozing and PR should therefore be his thing and it always surprises me that it comes across as the last thing he may be good at.

I always found replies or posts from Roger Dimmock, sorry if the spelling is wrong, on the FR or WHR to be generally more informative or open and whilst he may think that some of us are fools for what we post or the questions we ask, you never get the impression he is anything but pleased to answer a question or correct an obvious error

 

dear all
apologies for the spelling mistakes and thanks for commenting i like the various c2 ideas.
@ Chris B i wish to do so but i have 3 limiting factors:
full time education
not being able to drive but only 3 months to go
and i have yet to reach an agreement over the use/boring of the family car :/
but when the latter 2 of those are sorted i will come and volunteer

@AndrewT i find your message very offensive.
im sorry for my spelling mistakes but but you seem to have been able to understand what i have posted?
you do not know me by person or over the internet so how can you deduce that i have no authority, i have as much authority as any other member on this forum, i admit im young and have much to learn but im pretty good on the subject of the WHR and the bring you up to speed section was compiled from media sources and my recent visit to the railway to be helpful to people when they were thinking up ideas that had already happened.
i do not wish to make enemy's on the forum.

and back to all thank you for the support in this matter and i know that everyone at the FR/WHR is friendly

 

Bit like employing Jeremy Clarkson to sell electric cars! Sometimes high office goes to peoples heads but it won't be the first, nor last time when I have seen preservation enterprises fall short in their public relations. This is a forum for discussion, can't we give information. and corrections, in a more kindly way?

 

One would think so. I thought Patrick's original post to be a pretty good one and seems to reflect the current situation on the WHR pretty well. I'm sure at some point there might be a need for another engine to supplement the working fleet but perhaps that will be 134 sooner than anything else. Andrew's response was totally unnecessary.

 

Hi Patrick,

I am pleased to hear you are hoping to volunteer with the F&WHR.

I notice that you live in Cheshire. If you have problems with going to North Wales as often as you would like can I suggest you also check out the F&WHR's Dee & Mersey Area Group who hold regular meetings in Chester. As well as meeting up with others who share your enthusiasm, there is a good chance you will make contacts there that will help secure a lift to railway. They have a webpage on the main Ffestiniog Railway Society website Ffestiniog Railway Society which can be found in the 'contacts' section.

I must confess that I am a volunteer on another Welsh railway, but I am friends with a number of people in that group (you will find there are a lots of inter-railway friendships between the volunteers of the Welsh narrow gauge lines and we do help each other out).

Best wishes,
Gareth

 

Postscript:

There is also another Area Group in Stoke-on-Trent (the North Staffs) if that is easier for you to get to.

 

Since the question of what next for the F&WHR may I suggest how about something like a new build Darjeeling class 'C' or how about converting one of the remaining Indian ZB to 2ft gauge or if that does not float your boat, how about a new NG9 or NG10.

Better still would be trying to fill the gaps in the WHR heritage fleet with 13inch to the foot scale versions of some of the old locos.

As for a new diesel, what not go and look around Russia and see if you can pick up a TU-7a bogie diesel and convert that instead, it is just a though.