Moorlands and City Railway

Roll on the Yanks whistle is all I can say

 

A bit disappolnted at not working on the Stoke -Leek Brook line yet so we availed ourselves on some of the more mundane work today, One group did a line walk Cauldon to Apesford and least the weather wasn't to bad. The other group did some tidying up around Cheddleton including our favourite job of shovelling ballast we also removed the chairs from the crossing job to a more secure site, The rest of the day we spent piddling about, catching up with what was happening with the S160, the restoration of the original GUV and the tall tales of the Civils gang. Looking back now it did make a change and we did enjoy it after all.

 

There's a lot of misunderstanding about the "ups and downs" of rail travel - for our purposes it may not be a particularly useful terminology. My reading is that on early timetables, both outward and inward services were printed on the same sheet of paper. The outward services were read "down" the page, and the return journeys were read "up". Obviously, this depends where you're starting your journey from, but rumour has it that this concept was developed from the perspective of a large City in the South-East of England where there were several rail termini. Nor are the terms "out" and "back" correct. What if you're starting your journey from Caldon Lowe! (now there's a thought!)
It is purely coincidental that mile-posts were also started from these termini, so mileposting is not necessarily a true guide to these "ups and downs". However, the Caldon Lowe(I use the correct spelling) and Waterhouses branches were both mileposted from Leekbrook North junction (there are interesting historical reasons for this), and as this junction no longer exists, mileposting now surely needs to be revised.
Similarly, the Churnet Valley line was mileposted from Uttoxeter Dove Bank station, which eventually became the Northern point of a triangular junction with the Stoke-Derby line. This station was closed as long ago as 1881, when the line was put in to Uttoxeter Bridge Street (the present station), and I am not aware that this mileposting was ever corrected.
With all the above in mind, and the line proposed to run from Stoke to Caldon Lowe, with branches to Leek and Alton, (do we all agree?) there obviously needs to be some discussion regarding mileposting. I think that this thread would be a good place to start.
By the way, has anybody found/seen/noted any actual mileposts or milemarkers on their travails? I reckon there should be a "12" milepost very near Froghall, 14 and a quarter at Consall, 16 and a half at Cheddleton and 17 and a half at Leekbrook.. These surely need to be saved for posterity, as they were on the adjacent Cauldon canal.

 

There are many mileposts still in situ along the entire CVR. I attach two images (taken on brakevan rides etc) which have been cropped and "zoomed in" as by coincidence they included mileposts. The yellow one is on the Cauldon Lowe branch, milepost 3 which is just on the Leekbrook Junction side of Apesford Level Crossing. The image of the white milepost is a CVR one and is milepost 14 1/2. This one can be found north of Consall station on the curves that are encountered near the Black Lion pub.

Still awake? My personal opinion is that the mileposts reflect the railways history so should be retained/preserved exactly as they are. It is interesting finding out why something is measured from the point that it is, and there are other oddities in the mileposts.

For example the Stoke-on-Trent-Leekbrook line has a change of mileage halfway along it, as I believe the line is measured from Stoke as far as Milton Junction (about three and a half miles out from Stoke along the line). And then zeros for the remainder of the run to Leekbrook (because this line was a "branch" line off the Biddulph Valley line which ended up outliving its bigger brother)

As the Cauldon branch is also measured from Leekbrook, I suppose a Stoke to Cauldon Lowe train would pass three "Milepost two's" during the relatively short journey!

Hope the above isn't too tedious for more casual readers!!!

 

We were exiled to Oakamoor today, the weather forecast rain all day, nowhere to shelter, but we had the last laugh it hardly rained at all. There's no way that our spirits will be dampened. The object of the exercise was to replace a lever box, clean and grease all the points there, replace keys and do a line walk to Froghall. The van with the lever box and equipment did not arrive until 10-30 so we split into 2 groups 1 to grease and 1 to change the box. Needless to say I was in the box group, we struggled to get all the bolts, nuts and split pins out, put in the refurbished lever box tested it and found it was the wrong type. By this time it was lunch so it was decided to return to Cheddleton in the van pick up the right box and start all over again. Luckily this proved a very smooth operation after the mornings effort and we did it in 40 minutes. All objectives were completed , well done team. We shall overcome.

 

sounds good. looks like i wont be down for 2 weeks now as i have a new job (bakery manager in Hanley) i know thats not going to help my belly is it. and although i told the team leader i dont work wednesdays he has put me down for them for the next two weeks.

 

Which point? Does the one at the very end of the loop (closest to Froghall) still require a "jiggle" underneath to pull across?

 

Chris,That's the point, the new one has a new spring in, it'll build up your muscles up pulling it over. No more jiggling.

 

Good to hear of another successful project concluded. Do any of the P-way have any photographs showing the recent clearance work down there? I hear the place has been transformed...

 

Sorry no photos, although several of the gang had their mobiles with them. The group with the lever change (twice) and line walk were too busy and the other group too greasey. Maybe next time whenever that is.

 

Interesting stuff. I'm involved with the Churnet Valley Living Landscape Partnership and one of the projects we recently scoped was to preserve/reinstate/interpret mileposts on the canal and roads. A couple of CVR/NSR people are in on the project as we did talk about including the railway but couldn't come up with any physical projects to work on as the sites need to be publicly accessible (this is a funding condition.) However the railway mileposts definitely should be included in the interpretation aspect as the above message thread shows. Might pick your brains further on this at some point if that's OK.

BTW this is my first post on here though I've been lurking for ages. Interests are the canal (obvious from my username lol) but also the Stoke line, as I grew up in sight of it just off Birches Head Road, where my mum still lives. If there's such a thing as an IMBY (no N) I think she is it - she really can't wait to see it in use again!

 

Gav, you don't have to sample all the products every day you know

 

Welcome Steve! As you'll see from our musings on here, we enjoy the delights of the valley as much as we do hitting dumb bits of metal with blunt objects. This milepost discussion has me a bit confused though. I thought it began regarding the canal milepost visible in a field just west of Oakamoor sand sidings, rather than the railway ones, which are fairly unremarkable? Cheers, Iain

 

Thanks Iain I think we maybe take mileposts for granted a bit and as you say they are not always aesthetically great but their history and use is actually pretty interesting (as the up/down section of this thread illustrates.) The CVLLP is all about celebrating the heritage of area, so a milepost project which ties together the histories of roads, canals and railways fits perfectly. The milepost by the sidings is the only remaining one in situ on the Uttoxeter Canal but we want to put the others back as far as Denstone. The project will also reinstate the missing "bobbin" post on the Leek - Asbourne road and clean up loads of others on roads and canals across the area.

 

Sounds like a good project Steve, always nice to see the old roadside mileage posts restored when you're driving by too.

 

Welcome aboard, Steve! Yes, the project does sound interesting, and I agree that the mileposts should be preserved "in-situ". However, we've also got to accept that MCR is to become a working railway, and, as such, will need to establish its own mile markers (but for God's sake, I hope, not kilometer markers!) I hope that new, uniquely coloured, markers can be put in by the new railway to add a little bit of "living" history to what has gone before. As things develop, I expect that MCR will develop its own "corporate" image, and maybe these new markers could incorporate some of the style of the old North Staffordshire Railway, such as the colour "madder lake" which was always popular in the old days?
Just a thought, Steve, if a foot/cycle path was developed alongside the railway (Leek to Oakamoor), then the mileposts would then become "publicly accessible".

 

Does it? I know elements of the working practices are being lifted from the "big railway", and they still seem to operate with the usual legacy of conflicting mileposts & bridge numbers etc...

 

Hi Kenneth, thanks for your comments. I'm all for the concept of living history, and the process of how MCR decide to move this on would become part of that. I wasn't aware that there would be a need for new mileposts along much of the line, other than of course the Cheddleton to Stoke section where I'm guessing loads have been "collected" over the years. Any idea how many are missing?

As for the cycling/footpath we are actively looking at the Froghall to Oakamoor section and have had brief informal discussions with CVR/NCR about this, as well as having walked the line. It has already occurred to me that a nice way to mark the re-opening of this walking route would be the reinstatement of the one missing canal milepost on that stretch (south of Ross Bridge) but I don't think we could make the railway mileposts accessible in the way that HLF mean. Apart from anything else our proposal will be to put almost the entire walking route on the opposite side of the old canal to the railway for both safety and practical reasons. The exceptions to this are two loops where the canal is a relatively long way from the railway and there is a field between towpath edge and the track. The railway mileposts would therefore be visible from the new walking route in places but at a distances of maybe 50 feet or more (note: I've not done the measurements.) Having said that I'd still be keen to find a way to interpret them, maybe via an information board at one of the stations inviting passengers to keep an eye out for them en route?

 

Hi All,

Hope you don't mind if I 'muscle in' on this thread.

I have tried to start a couple of independent forums off dedicated to the CVR/MCR but being a sole trader I never really got the backing or support to make it as successful as just this one thread on here. so..... if you can't beat em, join em.

I know a few of you and they will know who I am, so I hope you will vouch for me to the others that I am really at heart a nice guy and maybe we can become stronger in numbers.

I like photographing railways and the CVR/MCR in particular, so maybe will put some of my boring shots on here too.

OK, enough for now. Maybe add more later.

Keep up the good work Jeff and Co.

Cheers.

Barry