New Builds (Could the NRM claim them)

Somthing I've just thought of, 92220 is supposed to be the last of the last, so what happens to machines like 60163 and 45551 in the future? Could the RHC just claim them? Would it be more complicated than that?

 

They're private property so the NRM wouldn't have any claim on them

Keith

 

While I think that the RHC won't be able to designate them, I suspect it isn't simply because they are private property. Since privatisation, almost all network rolling stock has been "private property", as was the actual infrastructure until Network Rail was designated as a Government Body last year.

I am pretty sure (and I know at least one person on here will need to know for definite!) that the legislation which privatised the Railways did produce a requirement for RHC designated items to be handed, when finished with, to the NRM. I doubt the scope of that legislation would extend to steam locomotive construction groups.

I also have a vague feeling that the RHC powers were either proposed to be reduced to requests rather than requirements and may have been so changed.

Stevem

 

I realise that rolling stock from privatised companies running the network would be private property, but I suspect that at privatisation there was a clause on the transfer of ownership allowing the RHC/NRM to designate/claim certain items. Any new rolling stock bought since privatisation wouldn't be subject to that clause.

Just my thoughts on what would be a logical set of rules!

I think Martin is right that the RHC was (or is to be) disbanded.


Keith

 

What no Pendolino in the NRM -

 

It is one thing designating an item for the National Collection of railway rolling stock and artefacts, the RHC and its replacement Science Museum group are quite good at that. It is something else having a plan for its long term security and funding once it becomes available. This it would appear is something the various designating bodies have not been good at. Forgetting the various arguments about the use of space for commercial activities for now, the fact is the Science Museum group has a finite resource when it comes to covered display and storage facilities. What they have needs constantly financing and any expansion will need funding. Where are the funds going to come from in the future to maintain what already exists or a increased portfolio? This question appears to be rarely if ever asked when designating. OK, items can be loaned out to third parties provided they have accommodation of the same standard as the Science Museum with the costs then being born by them but other museums also have the same space and funding pressures.

I have been, and still am, critical of the way many items of rolling stock in the National Collection have been /are being cared for. However, it is clear that in the past items have been added to the collection without proper consideration as to their long term well being and once acquired have not received the attention they needed. This has got us to were we are now with many items having been removed from the collection or even scrapped due to deteriorating condition or other factors. To be fair though, the blame does not lie with the current curators who are trying to address the legacy.

Thus, it is possible that in the future some of the new builds will be considered worthy of inclusion in the National Collection but if a funded plan for their long term upkeep is not in place then it would be wrong to take them in.

Their is though nothing to prevent locomotives considered to be worthy of inclusion being purchased rather than acquired in other way. That of course was how FLYING SCOTSMAN was acquired.

 

While the HRC as an entity was indeed abolished in 2013, ITS POWERS with regard to nominating important railway items for preservation have not. These designation powers were transferred to the Board of Trustees of the Science Museum after much lobbying by the railway fraternity who feared that without them important artefacts would not be saved and who pointed out that the abolition of the HRC would save the Treasury hardly anything in monetary terms (Indeed there is an argument that its abolition had more to do with meeting the incoming Governments commitment to abolish 'lots of red tape and un-necessary quangos' than any real budgetary saving)

As for new builds like Tornado - well there is nothing to stop the Science Museum nominating it as worthy of preservation - just as they could do the same to a class70, class 68, Pendalino, Javalin, Electrostar, Desiro or an Autoballaster wagon if they felt there was a need. You need to remember that the point of designation is not to stop the owner making use of - or modifying the asset throughout its useful life. All designation means is that when the time comes (which could be anything from a couple of years to several decades) to dispose of said asset, it must be offered up for Preservation ahead of the scrap men.

So lets say in 50 years Tornado has become to knackered for the owning group to look after and nobody wants to take it on, then by having Tornado 'designated' it means that it would be offered up for preservation (which could be by the NRM - note thats not must be) rather than becoming razor blades. Until that time occurs Tornado remains the property of the owning group who are free to do what they wish to it free from interference.

 

Placing those powers of designation with the Board of Trustees of the Science Museum implies that they can, and possibly will, take some account of the ongoing costs of preserving any particular object as one of the considerations in whether to designate it.

 

Cheers everybody I think it's slightly clearer (at least to me anyhow!)

 

One would hope so and time will tell. However, I read this week that Class 03 diesel D2144-03144 had been designated. The National Collection already has D2090-03090 and over forty other examples are with preservationists. OK, it has a BPGVR cut down cab, but so have five other preserved ones and has seen military service but is it really necessary to have two almost identical locomotives designated.

 

Designation does not mean the NRM automatically takes ownership. They would have to compensate the owner, or hope the owner will be kind enough to donate it. It gives a kind of 'listed building' status to the loco or object so that it cannot be scrapped or disposed of without approval.

 

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