New builds - how many will ever really work?

Very true. There's also a chance to rename and number her as fellow classmates including 32426 St Albans Head which hauled a special over the Bluebell in the 50's.

Personally I'm hoping to see her in Southern Olive Green (how great would she look with B473, 1638 and 847 and on the Maunsell coaches) but I'm happy with the BR Black when she steams.

 

I have to say, I don't mind it being in BR livery (though I do prefer Southern Green).

The livery would certainly help to highlight the fact that the Brighton Atlantics outlasted all the others of it's type, with 32424 'Beachy Head' lasting till April 1958, a commendable achievement. With that in mind, I suppose you could dub the H2 Class 'King of the Atlantics'! Quite catchy, no?

In any case, I look forward to it's return with great interest, too few Atlantics have survived with none in steam, a great loss for the heritage group. A loss that the Bluebell Railway Atlantic Group must undo! No pressure... Seriously though, I look forward to seeing an Atlantics thunder the rails again, I shall dub the event as 'The Return of the Atlantic King'.

On a side note, I would certainly like to see it at the Swanage Railway at some point; though I suspect due to the engine's uniqueness and (undeniably) good looks, it should be in high demand.

Although I'm curious, how many carriages (depending on the gradients) will it be able to pull?

 

Out of interest, will Beachy Head be certified for main-line operation? Forgive my ignorance, but if not, why not?

Many thanks

Toby

 

She must run in LBSCR Marsh umber at some stage despite the nameplates and Maunsell modifications, besides there are simply too many pre-grouping locos running in BR black for my liking.

 

I would've thought that cost of fitting OTMR etc, possible limited hauling capacity?, and the Bluebell's needs would be high on the list of why the loco won't go mainline. I don't have any connections to the Bluebell or the loco however so it is just my opinion!

Keith

 

I think you will find that the Atlantic Group are building it for use on the Bluebell and their own enjoyment rather than have it thrashed on the mainline and used, abused and worn out at other lines. That was always the ethos when I was a working member. Main line running is high cost, high risk and usually low return after all that. Why would you do it? Why would you spend years building something then have it carted about by low loader, loaded, unloaded bumped up the motorway. Everyone else enjoys your hardwork then you have to make good the wear and tear afterwards when the party is over. After all that you then get a load of earache because it isn't in the livery that somebody else demands!

Daftest thing Ive ever seen? Every year the Swanage allowing one of their out of ticket locos to be taken to the Great Dorset Steam fair on a low loader and then have it dragged up and down the playpen all week by various road engines. Looks great but what are they doing to the locos integrity and how will they pay for it in years to come. Looks spectacular to say the least watching Bodicea pulling it up the hill and great publicity but very short sighted to say the least.

 

why? because they want to....that pretty well defines a hobby dunnit?

 

It would be better to ensure there is actually something in our lifetime to paint without worrying about the shade used (At least the Atlantic project, although I don't see the rationale behind it, is making visible progress).

All this stuff about liveries only serves to make unbelievers like me say "Huh" all the louder.

 

Visiting other railways with your loco may not always be financially beneficial, a lot will depend upon the type of agreement you have with your 'home' railway. Other factors have to be taken into consideration to decide if the visit is worthwhile and that's a decision only the owner can make. Sometimes it comes down to a mutual exchange arrangement between railways, if we all took the view that 'no one else can play with my toy' you wouldn't see different engines on different railways, Galas would become quite boring! Yes you take a risk every time you hire out, and you have to seriously consider when to have a rep present and when you can waive that requirement (you get to know which railways treat your engine with respect), also the additional wear & tear that road haulage inflicts upon your prized machine.

With regards Swanage locos going to the GDSF, that again has been down to the owners NOT the railway (and it isn't every year!). We (6695 LG) were asked to send 6695 there one year (previously, before restoration, the boiler had gone to the Steam fair to be dragged around as a load) but we declined the request as we weren't going to risk a newly overhauled loco being treated like that (one of the considerations was the amount of dust and 'foreign matter' that might get into axleboxes and motion bearings as well as the 'unusual' loading on the springs). It is generally out of ticket locos that have gone, and SR based engines aren't the only ones to go either; MHR have sent locos as well as have other owners. Again it's a balance between publicity/fund raising and the likely amount of damage incurred.

 

Very reasoned and well defined answer innit.

If you actually sat and watched the poor standard 4 tank lurching and bouncing along it would make you wince. A lot of loco owners won't let their assets travel by road anymore due to damage to bearings and frames. This was over a large rough field on and off all day for nearly a week. You don't treat railway engines like that without paying for it later.Look at the problems Flying Scotsman has now.

dunnit. off to ele-mo-cution lessons now. Howzattt

 

Nigel - happy to acknowledge your correction.

 

I'm curious, how many carriages (depending on the gradients) will it be able to pull?

 

Well, I'm not sure what colour Marsh Umber really is?! However, I'm sure £3000+ would cover the cost of the paint and its application so why not Knotty if you want to pay for it and the owning group agrees?
Regarding your other locos and the title of this thread, I would suggest that starting a massive demand for money during an economic "desert" might not be advisable. The new-builds that are now established should do OK (I've just received the latest "Patriot" E-newsletter and progress is excellent) but ones that do not yet have a large presence in the form of steel may not. However, there are exceptions and the "Claud" may be one of those as it appeals to many enthusiasts, young and old, who believe that a member of this class should have been saved. Not all those enthusiasts may be able to pay for it so the key is to appeal to a wider, younger audience, which is what the Claud Group seem to be doing - good luck to them.

As for the others, well the GCR Class 2 has a boiler put to one side for it and would be a bonus for the GCR, but again its all about cost. Finally the Cardean would be my personal lottery recipient; a relatively simple, massive 4-6-0, this class must have looked wonderful in the Caledonian Blue livery pre WWI. We can't have everything!

 

Though the Bluebell will be mainline connected, whereas if it were to visit other preserved lines, then it would have to moved by road.

 

Yeah i guess you aren't wrong there. However Beachy Head won't have grandfather rights to move around like original rolling stock and motive power so would it be allowed? I don't believe she has ever been built with mainline running in mind so I would imaging the compliance and type approval paper trail malarky would not be in place. To get it there would be a massive and very expensive undertaking.

 

It may not have been their intent, but if the group hasn't got all the documentation for all the materials and methods used I would be surprised, as really it would be needed regardless of where the loco is to run.

How difficult to take on the mainline? Depends a little on whether you are talking about operating it or merely towing it dead. The latter is probably much more straightforward, and proof of an axle test might be all that is needed.

If operation is required.....well that is far from impossible Tornado is proof of that, and you might not have quite as many hurdles to jump as the boiler is after all an original locomotive boiler, so presumably that part of the locomotive does carry grandfather rights.

 

Don't know is the honest answer. Unfortunately bureaucracy has gone mad so I would hazard an informed guess that the compliance documentation that Keith and the gang have no doubt amassed diligently and which in the real world would be more than adequate will not be to the liking of NR's bloated consultancy led driven culture.

 

On the Bluebell, 6 Mk 1 equivalents. However, that is limited by our platforms, not the engine's power; if we had longer platforms no doubt she'd take more if required.

She's a class 4P in BR parlance, so broadly equivalent to a 75xxx standard, a GWR Manor etc, though possibly she'll turn out to be a bit more light footed.

On the subject of mainline: No. The certification etc is expensive, just to result in an engine off on the mainline rather than pulling Bluebell trains where she is needed! Why would we do that? To my knowledge, there are no plans for any Bluebell-owned loco to be mainline certified, even after we get our connection at EG.

Tom

 

Perhaps it would be worth looking into getting the necessary documents to have it towed? I have no doubt that it will visit other lines, and if it were able to be towed on the mainline with necessary motions removed it would reduce the risks involved with road transportation.

 

Are there such things as "grandfathers rights" or is the expression merely an urban myth?

P.H.